Forum rules
Do not post support questions here. Before you post read the forum rules. Topics in this forum are automatically closed 6 months after creation.
albertcamembert wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:06 am
On a second hand desktop, I do prefer XCfe to cinnamon, because yes I do prefer linux austerity to windows modern way
Your preference. Others are allowed different preferences. On all the over 100 installations I've done are all Cinnamon. I also set things up so it looks logical, something usually not found on Windows.
Funny thing is I think Xfce is one of the two most Windows like UIs in Linux. It's a great choice for those who thing that XP was the last good Windows release. I definitely know a few computer geeks who think that way.
The other one is KDE, which I think is about the closest thing you can get to the Windows 7 UI. I'm a KDE guy myself but that wasn't the reason for me. It's just really powerful (the most powerful one I've used), and they've never tried to re invent the wheel
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
My buddy who got the Linux system does some music stuff, so I pointed him to Audacity and Mixx, and he was so happy that he can do what he did under Windows on Linux. Once more, the best distro is the one that people can use without having to become a command line or Linux expert, one they can just turn on and use. Again: Mint and POP!_OS are my go to distros to give to people.
The most positive experience I had with bringing someone over to linux was my sister, a college history professor.
I installed LM Cinnamon 17.3 and a few years later she bought a new laptop and installed LM Cinnamon 19 herself.
She did ask me for some help with the tweaks we had done on the initial install.
This is someone who will tell you she has no interest in computers, to her it is an appliance like her toaster oven or washing machine - she needs it to get stuff done. She was having issues with her Lenovo IdeaPad that was running Windows (I think 8.1). She came to for a visit a and I showed her linux . . . she was skeptical because she had to access areas on-line at her college that involved grading and assignments and so on. Once she got over that hurdle she the next thing she wanted to know was if she could run Quicken. I explained no not natively but there were a few ways to set Quicken up but I was not a big fan of any of them but they could work. I also told her there were alternatives to Quicken like GnuCash - so we installed that for her to look at but was not impressed so we went with the dual boot approach. While she was doing that, which she really didn't like because it just meant all the Windows issues she was trying to avoid she started playing with GnuCash. I couldn't help her as I never even had even seen GnuCash, just heard of it. Long story short, she learned GnuCash and and moved over it and to 100% linux - that is when she bought a new Lenovo laptop and did her own install.
RollyShed wrote: ⤴Wed Jan 03, 2024 4:22 pm
The new Treasurer uses Linux so simply carried on using GnuCash.
I guess it depends on the organization. When I was in the Army we had to use Windows and in our Brigade at least the G6 (IT boss) made sure us "regular users" (peons) could not install any apps and had the USB ports disabled.
Most of us use what we are used to - I never used a financial app in my life - I have been using an Excel type spreadsheet (Gnumeric now a days) for literally 30+ years to make a budget and keep track of my finances. Now I am sure for a treasurer that has a much more complicated task at hand than me just keeping track of my water bill etc. a spreadsheet is not the best solution. My sister uses GnuCash I guess the same way I use a spreadsheet - I have never got into specifics but it is for her household finances. She has mentioned there was a learning curve but that GnuCash does everything that Quicken did for her so she seems pretty happy with it.
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:09 pm
My buddy who got the Linux system does some music stuff, so I pointed him to Audacity and Mixx, and he was so happy that he can do what he did under Windows on Linux. ...
You can get a Linux version of Reaper. It's a DAW rather than a DJ app like Mixx but it's a pretty good one.
The real problem with DAWs in Linux is that many VST plugins won't work. The Reaper site claims it works well with Wine and while Wine isn't very reliable that may be reason enough to use it with that program.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
albertcamembert wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 01, 2024 7:06 am
... why focus on "windows like" superficial appearance when nothing work the same...
I do agree with that somewhat. I've seen things like Zorin, which tried to look and feel like Windows 7. The idea was that it'd smooth out the transition. It doesn't work. You can make it look like Windows 7 but it doesn't work the same. What's going to happen when the user discovers there's no C: drive?
But I'd also suggest that all GUI environments look and feel very similar and have for decades. Why shouldn't they? They've all been doing the same thing for a long time. My MX KDE I'm typing this in does much the same things as the Windows I began using about 35 years ago. It just does it a whole lot better. There are no new paradigms there.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:09 pm
My buddy who got the Linux system does some music stuff, so I pointed him to Audacity and Mixx, and he was so happy that he can do what he did under Windows on Linux. ...
You can get a Linux version of Reaper. It's a DAW rather than a DJ app like Mixx but it's a pretty good one.
The real problem with DAWs in Linux is that many VST plugins won't work. The Reaper site claims it works well with Wine and while Wine isn't very reliable that may be reason enough to use it with that program.
Thanks I will pass that on. He is looking for native Linux apps since he is still very excited about Linux.
A commercial package might work and because someone has paid for it they will try to make it do what they want it to.
I've previously told the story of Windows 10 being wiped by MS because of a forced update.
Here, a story of a commercial product that only "sort-of" worked.... eventually -
My partner does the finances for a farm business and the results go to the accountants.
They use MYOB which is a reasonably large commercial software company. A few years back, to make things compatible, she bought a MYOB DVD to install it on her computer. It wouldn't install. I contacted MYOB and they asked, "Has she got a 64 bit computer? You should know it won't run on that."
I went through all the packaging, through their website and no where did it mention only 32 bit. I told them that.
"Oh!!! In that case money back or we will give you the more powerful version."
The accountants were running V19. She was given the latest, V2010.
If you get help from the company or have someone come in and actually sit beside you to sort things out, you (usually) pay. She never had to pay because it was always their fault. After 5 years it got to almost be OK.
Yes, there was a major difference between V19 and V2010.
So FREE works and PAID-FOR might, if you are lucky.
there's interesting thoughts here and this talk about free is more than I can probably think of myself
I have this experience, trying many many linux distros since 2006 and never found a good one
I did music on audacity, using foobar, and a lot of jeskola buzz, I am pretty used to GIMP, but all far better working on an old windows XP (build by linux friendly, coccinelle )
I do have friends working on linux system in hacking and in science, that works very well but it's totally different from a "regular user" need
I'm not into computer, just like driving a car I don't know how to build it
numeric is that wya, it's so complexe, you don't have life enouh to work on it when doing your own job aside
that is what Windwos and Apple are doing, they offer a easy system you paid for
just like Nike or Adidas you have the good tool but you also wear the brand big on your front
the difference is that this tool is never good, it's always going better every minute, it's like you buy a very powerful tool, something so complexe that you can not use it all, just like using a best 10% of your brain, and linux distro are promising you will be able to use it at it best so you could go on Mars and build a new city there - all of that and then, few months later your device is total trash "go buy another" it's too old blablabla
just like trying to catch a bus going faster and faster on the highway, at some point I just want to sit and stay here because I need to work (and I never asked for numeric becoming so invasive)
so the best distro is a tightrope walk dressed inbetween two different speed boat, some modern kleenex maybe?
Bollocks. My machines have been running on Linux (first Ubuntu LTS, then Linux Mint) since 2006. Stable as a rock, almost boringly reliable. No matter what I throw at them, my machines keep running as dependably as a ship's diesel engine.
The serious computing mishaps I encountered in those 18 years of fulltime Linux desktop usage, can be counted on the fingers of one hand.
Apple offers a computer for people who treat a computer as a major appliance. They want to turn it on and it works predictably each and every time, the exact same way; Typical user my wife and youngest daughter who hate computers, but have to use them, and just want them to do the same thing all the time the same way. Although for those who want to get "under the hood" there is the Apple terminal, and you can really get a feel for Unix for those who want to do so.
Microsoft offers software that you can play around a little with, but also offers a slightly less level of predictable use to most people who use computers, but do not love them, and really could care less as long as email, Word, web browsing, turbo-tax, and netflix work when they click on the icon, and just really do not want to be bothered by anything else other than applications which are all they use, so the OS is just something that makes their applications run. They can handle the occasional glitch or error, and as long as Geek Squad (or similar) is there to remove the malware, viruses, and do other tech support, do not care. Or those who want to play games: Typical user- my oldest daughter and me (for gaming, iTunes, Photoshop, and Turbo Tax).
Linux is for those who want control over their computers, who do not want to be monetized, spied on, who want to OWN what they have, and not have to pay were-geld to a big corporation and have their data just sucked dry. They want to experiment, change things, break things, do things, and are not as interested in the end of the trip as much as the journey to get there. These are the people who want complete and utter control on their computers. Typical User- well...me. Except I just want to computer to get out of my way while I do things, and not phone home about me.
That is why I use Linux. Again, Mint or POP!_OS are the best choices for a new user depending on their level of "tech awareness". I would never, ever give a new user Debian or Fedora unless I had locked things down, and set it up completely so that they never had to "get under the hood". I do that anyway for the most part.
Have I broken Linux installations? ALL THE BLOODY TIME! I manage to kill an install at least a couple of times a year by asking: "Hmmm, I wonder what THIS would do?" Ah Crud! Format and re-install. But that is how you learn.
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:03 pm
Have I broken Linux installations? ALL THE BLOODY TIME! I manage to kill an install at least a couple of times a year by asking: "Hmmm, I wonder what THIS would do?" Ah Crud! Format and re-install. But that is how you learn.
Agreed. But wild crazy experiments don't count for the reliability score of Linux Mint.
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:03 pm
Have I broken Linux installations? ALL THE BLOODY TIME! I manage to kill an install at least a couple of times a year by asking: "Hmmm, I wonder what THIS would do?" Ah Crud! Format and re-install. But that is how you learn.
Agreed. But wild crazy experiments don't count for the reliability score of Linux Mint.
Sadly true, sadly so very true. But I learn something each time!
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:03 pm
...Have I broken Linux installations? ALL THE BLOODY TIME! I manage to kill an install at least a couple of times a year by asking: "Hmmm, I wonder what THIS would do?" Ah Crud! Format and re-install. But that is how you learn.
An easier way to recover from a totally borked system is to make images on a regular basis and, especially, before experimenting (Foxclone is good for that). That way, you can restore the image to get back to where you were but without the hassle of reinstalling and retweaking.
Jeannie
To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:03 pm
...Have I broken Linux installations? ALL THE BLOODY TIME! I manage to kill an install at least a couple of times a year by asking: "Hmmm, I wonder what THIS would do?" Ah Crud! Format and re-install. But that is how you learn.
An easier way to recover from a totally borked system is to make images on a regular basis and, especially, before experimenting (Foxclone is good for that). That way, you can restore the image to get back to where you were but without the hassle of reinstalling and retweaking.
Oh yeah. I use Timeshift for this personally. My data is on a separate /home.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong - H. L. Mencken
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Mon Jan 08, 2024 12:03 pm
...Have I broken Linux installations? ALL THE BLOODY TIME! I manage to kill an install at least a couple of times a year by asking: "Hmmm, I wonder what THIS would do?" Ah Crud! Format and re-install. But that is how you learn.
An easier way to recover from a totally borked system is to make images on a regular basis and, especially, before experimenting (Foxclone is good for that). That way, you can restore the image to get back to where you were but without the hassle of reinstalling and retweaking.
Oh yeah. I use Timeshift for this personally. My data is on a separate /home.
I also use Timeshift and strongly recommend it (I also keep my personal data separate from /home). However, when a System is borked so badly it can't be booted, I've found Timeshift, even when used from a live disk, doesn't always restore a borked system. While not as fast and/or convenient as snapshots, imaging is far more reliable than depending on Timeshift only. Using both is best; Timeshift for speed and convenience and imaging for more reliability.
Jeannie
To ensure the safety of your data, you have to be proactive, not reactive, so, back it up!
MurphCID wrote: ⤴Wed Jan 03, 2024 12:09 pm
My buddy who got the Linux system does some music stuff, so I pointed him to Audacity and Mixx, and he was so happy that he can do what he did under Windows on Linux. Once more, the best distro is the one that people can use without having to become a command line or Linux expert, one they can just turn on and use. Again: Mint and POP!_OS are my go to distros to give to people.
He may be interested in this distro (https://qstudio64.tumblr.com/), as it seems to be made for audio and video enthusiasts.
So it is a borked system and all the data is on a separate disk.
Timeshift?
No.
Do an installation of the latest version that won't have any broken bits in it.
Done that?
Yes, recently on the Shed's main computer.
