Linux..... too expensive for me (in time)

[Pjotr]

it feels like 75% of Windows skills aren't transferrable to Linux, or even confuse things.

Make that 90 % and you'd be closer to the truth....

I felt the same way, back in 2006, when I switched to Linux (Ubuntu 6.06 Dapper Drake). I was very knowledgeable in Windows XP, even some sort of a guru in it. It was frustrating and humiliating to me, to be an absolute beginner again.... But it was well worth it.

[Jedinovice]

it feels like 75% of Windows skills aren't transferrable to Linux, or even confuse things.

In a way, yup. Linux is written from a completely different paradigm to Windows and has a different kind of legacy.

No registry, no fixed GUI, totally different CLI experience...

Lots of relearning. However, you have one advantage over a complete newbie. You know what is possible. You know what can and should be able to be done in an OS. So you are in the position I was in when I started off in Linux - and partly why I started with Slackware.
"I know I should be able to do ABC so HOW do I do it?"

Having a good, powerful, GUI helps.

[Jedinovice]

And, re: a VPN, I don;t do it but a quick DuckDuckgo and ...

http://unspyable.com/linux_vpn_service.htm

But don't ask me beyond this! Over to the VPN'ers!

[Chiefahol]

My difficulties getting anywhere, and the extreme irritation I feel over how difficult everything is means I am extremely close to chucking it in and cutting my losses. I am not a quitter, that's why I'm still trying.

Can anyone relate to this and how did you handle it?

I can totally relate to this,

The first time i tried linux, it was just weeks of drama and no results, i tried it this year and it seemed easier. (Thanks to mint mainly)

Linux is very expensive time wise. It takes quite a while and a lot of effort to learn how to replace your windows programs, then there's a whole bunch of abstract stuff you gotta understand, and the command line.

Think of it like learning a new language. It takes years to become fluent. My advice would be to just try learn 1 thing a day. You'll be an awesome linux user soon enough.

[altair4]

@martieene, May I ask why you chose Mint?

Based on all your other opened topics Mint may not be your best option at this point. Mint requires a particular mindset that I don't think you embrace at this point. Mint works best when you work within the confines of the Mint environment. If it's not in the repositories don't install it. If it's not an available option like a vertical panel in Cinnamon don't force it.

I can appreciate the transition to Linux is a difficult one. If a vendor has an update for something and you're running Windows or OSX you download the installer, double click it, and you're done. That doesn't work too well in Linux.

You might consider Ubuntu. Perhaps Ubuntu MATE if you don't fancy the standard Unity Desktop. Or Gnome Shell or even Xubuntu.

That's not going to magically fix all the things you feel need fixing but there are about 6000 active members on it's forum so there's a good chance that on a given topic someone has already done what you are trying to do. Ubuntu is built different allowing all incremental kernel updates and xorg updates to pass through whereas Mint does not ( at least not by default ) for example.

If you were to follow a HowTo for Ubuntu or even use things like PPA's it may not work the same in Mint as they do in Ubuntu since the things it asks you to install may not install the requisite dependencies in Mint as they do in Ubuntu because of the way Mint is designed.

It appears that Mint has two kinds of users. Brand new users who accept Mint as is and don't feel a need to change it or veterans who have been to the other side and have come to Mint for it's simplicity and can either live within it's environment or know how to adjust it's peculiarities.

[Ark987]

Two more advises for a successful migration:

- Use native Linux applications whenever is possible.
- Practice more to "divide and conquer" specially in Linux, where everything is "modular". You have not specified what is giving you problems, maybe a separate topic to threat each problem individually, otherwise people will start deviating and telling you stories.

[English Invader]

I have two examples of why someone would stay on Windows:

1. Windows games, they not always run smoothly under Wine. (You cannot play your existing Windows only games collection )
2. Computer Aided Translation tools, if you are a professional translator your choices are extremely limited to non-existent in Linux. (You cannot use Linux to do your job and make a living)

Gaming was the main reason why I wiped the Windows 7 on my laptop and installed Mint. The emulators I wanted to use wouldn't work properly on Windows and the Windows only games on Steam I wanted to play crapped out on me when I tried to run them. There was quite simply no reason for me to keep Windows on my computer.

[Ark987]

Gaming was the main reason why I wiped the Windows 7 on my laptop and installed Mint. The emulators I wanted to use wouldn't work properly on Windows and the Windows only games on Steam I wanted to play crapped out on me when I tried to run them. There was quite simply no reason for me to keep Windows on my computer.

That's perfectly fine, in your case (I guess) you tried out Linux and realized that the games that you are interested in works perfectly in Linux, good for you.

But is not the case for everyone, sometimes due to the wide variety of hardware and games. I have Diablo III in my PC, it works fine in Windows 7, but in Linux it does not work for me, I just see garbled images neither do I have the energy or the willingness to tinker around to fix it. Some people does not have much time to spend fixing every little detail that step on its way.

Maybe games were not a good example, but Computer Aided Translation is a more clear example of why you would choose one OS over another (blame the software vendors).

[Moem]

Hey Martienne,
If you get tired from looking at the way you still have to go, don't forget to look back every now and then, at all the steps you've already taken. You're learning something that might very well do you good for many many years to come! So many new skills. They will serve you well over the years.

Don't get discouraged: you're smart (yes, I can tell) and you can do this, even if it takes more time than you expected.

[phd21]

I have two examples of why someone would stay on Windows:

1. Windows games, they not always run smoothly under Wine. (You cannot play your existing Windows only games collection )
2. Computer Aided Translation tools, if you are a professional translator your choices are extremely limited to non-existent in Linux. (You cannot use Linux to do your job and make a living)

Maybe games were not a good example, but Computer Aided Translation is a more clear example of why you would choose one OS over another (blame the software vendors).

Hi Ark987,

I just read your post and the good replies to it. Here are my thoughts on this as well.

2.) I may not be a professional translator, but I can, and I do, translate various things for people in this forum using various languages and tools within Linux. Maybe the translations are not perfect, but they are pretty good.

Here a couple examples of really great online tools that work in Linux as well:

Google Translate Web - I translate various web pages from English to other languages and visa-versa, for people in this forum.
http://itools.com/tool/google-translate ... translator

Google Translate - translate text from one language to another.
https://translate.google.com


Linux Browser plug-ins for FireFox, Google Chrome has them as well. Provides right click translations of selected text or entire pages, and "Translator" has audio (TTS) for original language and translated language (very cool).
"gTranslate", "Translate This!", "Translator" (text to speech), "Google Translate Https", etc...


1.) as for Gaming people and games, there are a lot of options. I am not be a big gaming person, although I do like playing them sometimes. The Linux "Steam" system is growing daily. "Steam’s love affair with Linux continues, and the infatuation is paying off in spades for Linux gamers."

Valve hits a Linux landmark—1,500 games available on Steam ( Sep 19, 2015)
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/2015/09/v ... -on-steam/

Steam hits 1,000 Linux games days after Valve's big Steam Machine reveal (Mar 14, 2015)
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2896797/ ... eveal.html

32 killer games for Steam Machines and Linux ( Aug 24, 2015)
http://www.networkworld.com/article/297 ... linux.html


Hope this helps ...

[uberdorf]

I agree with the others who say to go more gradually. Keep a dual boot computer or two computers. I keep Windows dual-boot on two out of four active computers at my house, and consider myself competent with both OS's, but certainly not an expert at either. For me, Linux Mint is far less time consuming to set up how I want than Windows, but I'm comfortable with Linux Mint. I could see how someone just starting out from Windows (and thinking from a Windows mindset) can have to do a lot of research to do what regular linux users would consider simple tasks.

For me, reinstalling Windows is a hassle. I have to first spend an hour or so with the installation, then I have hours of update downloads and finding programs to install. Then there is the maintenance of running scans, and keeping individual programs updated. Then there are the times that the antivirus gets disabled by a virus, and you have to remove the harddrive to scan from another computer if you don't have a dual boot computer. With Linux, on the other hand, initial setup with updates and setting up is 2-3 hours and I am done with it. I still occasionally scan Linux, but it is not as big a deal. As for updates, it is all in one spot usually, so you normally don't have to maintain a bunch of individual programs. I don't mind reinstalling Linux, I'm actually trying to download the 17.3 beta right now so I can play with it. I dread Windows reinstallations though, which I recently went through on a computer that had the shopperz malware on it. Once I removed the infected dnsapi.dll files, windows thought it wasn't genuine and I had no internet access lol.

So my advice is take your time and have fun with it. As the cliche goes, "Rome wasn't built in day..." Keep windows around for a while, until you are comfortable with linux. I occasionally use windows still, like for Family Tree Maker. That's about it, actually, but it is useful to keep around just in case I need something that won't run easily on linux.

[martienne]

Yeah, Ark987, phd21 and you give some very sensible advise.

Ark987 practically provided an action plan and a roadmap. Make it a project with clear deliverables and milestones. Lol.

Definitely I see the merit of not trying too much too soon, and the "action plan" approach was excellent. I just know that I don't normally have time/energy for large IT projects, so felt "now or never" and getting very stressed.

I still feel stressed about it and realise that at this rate, I won't be a full time Linux user (or near full) within the next year probably.

It's partly --- not just the configuration that's taking long. Based on what I've seen so far:
Say I want to DO something and I can do it in 1 hour on Windows. In the ideal world I'd prefer doing it in Linux instead.
But reality bites!

I simply don't have time for 1 hour research, 2 hours trying to install the thing and then 3 hours doing it... If I'm set up and good to go in Windows and can do the same thing beginning to end, in an hour. You can't always do the right thing, when reality kicks in.
That's just the harsh reality.

[deleted]

Don't forget... google is your friend.
I just installed 17.2 Cinnamon from a USB stick (using UNetbootin).
It was bricked after the install.
grub seemed to have tossed its cookies.
This straightened it out.
http://askubuntu.com/questions/88384/ho ... ng-windows
It did take a while to find and it was discouraging, but you have to think that someone, somewhere has to have found the same problem you have found and hopefully has figured it out.
-Z

[richmorehave]

It's just a mindset how you deal with Linux.

I was frustrated with spyware in windows 10, so I had to figure out way to deal with it.
I researched it, and lots of folks suggested I try Linux Mint.

I looked at YouTube videos on Linux Mint 17.2 and learned the basics.

I did dual boot Windows 10 and Linux Mint that was very simple.

And I gave myself a week to relax and just do basic stuff in Linux. LIke : surf the web check, use skype check, play music check, check sites I usually go to check, watch movies check, make chromecast work in Linux check, get Kodi to work in Linux check, get network shares working check.

I made it just one simple task at a time. If I got frustrated I would go back to windows partition. After a few days, I noticed there were days I didn't need to start up windows. And if I did, I stayed OFFLINE , in principle because I hate MS scanning and disclosing and SAVING all my stuff on my PC.

It comes down to motivation for doing it. There are a few things I still need to do on windows 10 OFFLINE, but maybe a few hours a month, if even that.

[InkKnife]

I kinda feel bad for Windows users having the figure out Linux. I come from an OSX background and in broad strokes OSX and Linux work the same.

[mdiemer]

I felt the same way. But then I retired. Now I have all the time I need to learn Linux, and it is great fun. So, I would devote as much time as practicable, Martienne. Don't neglect your social life, exercise, etc. Just put in what time you can. It will start to fall in place at some point. I have found this forum (and others) to be very helpful. Or I just google something, check out a tutorial, and I have the answer. Every time I learn something. When I was working, I made the mistake of trying to study Linux formally. Now I just do things and learn as I go. much more fun, and I remember it better than poring over some boring multi-chapter tutorial. I hope you stay, because I know you will grow to love Linux. It's inevitable, if you like computers, which you obviously do. Good Luck!

[Reorx]

Hang in there Martienne! My personal tale of the migration from Windows to Linux goes something like this (sorry for the meandering read) >>>

I was once pretty skilled at the MS Windows environment... the XP flavor in particular... I was mostly self taught... in 2009, I bought an inexpensive netbook as a testbed/experimentation machine for Linux... I didn't have a lot of time to devote to the project and had no deadline or timetable... I just wanted to see if I could (first) get Linux to run on my hardware and (second) learn a little more about Linux and how it all works... I booted and played with that machine whenever I got some spare time which wasn't all that often... it took me 2 years to get comfortable enough to install Linux Mint (9 Isadora) as the only OS on my wife's old gaming laptop (which I inherited when she got a new gaming machine)... Shortly after that, I bought an inexpensive new laptop with Ubu on it... wiped Ubu and replaced it with Mint 9 and brought that laptop to my office for use as my office laptop. Since the summer of 2011, I have not use Windows to any significant degree. I actually like WinXP (Pro). I find Win7 annoying but usable, Win8 intolerable, and Win10 intrusive/invasive and I refuse to use (touch) it...

After 4.5 years of using Linux Mint (Gnome 2 at first and then Cinnamon), I am very comfortable with the GUI and reasonably comfortable with the terminal. I am a user not a techie or an IT professional. I have some programming experience (years ago) but do not consider myself a programmer. I am not intimately familiar with the terminal or the intricate underpinnings of desktop linux and I don't want to be. I am VERY happy with Linux Mint for "everyday" computing and I can not ever see myself returning to any MS environment... Having said that, I still have a machine or 2 with a copy of Windows on them... 1 XP and 1 Win7 that I know of... I use a Win environment on RARE occasion to do specific tasks - I boot a copy of Windows about 2 to 4 times per year for about an hour or so each time... Life is good!

If you think about your own knowledge base in Win environments, you probably accrued that knowledge over years and maybe decades of hands on use. You may have even taken specific classes or had other formal training as well... With this in mind, it isn't really surprising that a totally foreign environment was unmasterable in a week or 2. Having read and participated in several of your threads, I think you have done remarkably well in a very short period of time especially for a Linux virgin. My memory of your experience is that you have a machine that is pretty much up and running and are working thru some the kinks of customization... My advice to you is to "hang in there" - this task is more like a marathon and not a sprint... get a machine that you can "play with" when you have some spare time... You will become more experienced and more comfortable with Linux in time and you will naturally migrate to it for everyday tasks when the time is right... and along the way you will learn some of the subtleties of the environment. Linux is really a wonderful environment but like all OSs, it has strengths and weaknesses. As you learn these with time and as you learn how to an how not to do things you will grow to appreciate its beauty & elegance and the freedom that is Linux.

In your original post you asked >

Can anyone relate to this and how did you handle it?

LOL! YES, we can all relate to this... The key to "handling it", for me at least, was adjusting my (unreasonable) expectations... There is a cliche in these parts that really rings true - "Linux is not Windows"... most Windows refugees on at least some level expect Linux to behave in a fashion that is at least a little similar to Windows... the lack of this similarity is UN-nerving to most... experienced (even skilled) users feel like they are in the first day of Computer 101 - pretty unsettling to say the least... If you haven't already seen it, you must visit and read this webpage > http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm It will help you get in touch with the Linux mindset.

I wish you all the best...

- R -

[tenfoot]

I've been following this discussion with a great deal of interest and applaud all those who have contributed for their maturity and eagerness to help "martienne" with the problems she is experiencing.

Perhaps you could give us some examples of what you mean when you saying:

Say I want to DO something and I can do it in 1 hour on Windows. In the ideal world I'd prefer doing it in Linux instead.
But reality bites!

I simply don't have time for 1 hour research, 2 hours trying to install the thing and then 3 hours doing it... If I'm set up and good to go in Windows and can do the same thing beginning to end, in an hour. You can't always do the right thing, when reality kicks in.
That's just the harsh reality.

Is the "something you want to DO" a complex problem which you have mastered in Windows but have yet to learn in Linux? Or is it some mundane "run of the mill" thing which may be obvious to one who has been using Linux for some time but not so for a newcomer?

[martienne]

Is the "something you want to DO" a complex problem which you have mastered in Windows but have yet to learn in Linux? Or is it some mundane "run of the mill" thing which may be obvious to one who has been using Linux for some time but not so for a newcomer?

At this point it's just about setting up the machine. I haven't started the normal usage yet.
But this principle applies to setting up the machine too. Everything is currently taking me 10 times longer than in Windows, just as in my example. And I have a feeling that this may be a trend that will extend to other things too.

I absolutely get that Linux is better, when you have really mastered it.
It's just humbling to be on a learning curve you thought you'd left behind forever, whereby the tiniest thing becomes a challenge. A bit like "regular" users feel on Windows a lot of the time.

I guess the fundamental problem is what was mentioned earlier. Windows skills are largely not transferrable, and for an experience techie it's extremely frustrating to be back at a level where your grandmother is, when she tries to edit a spreadsheet or add an attachment to an email

(oh darn, where do I click now... where is that file.... what do they mean it's too big...? What's a megabyte?... Image editing software, whats that....how do i use that....? Can it damage the computer? These wretched computers just makes simple things so difficult! I'll write a letter instead.)

We'd laugh at that, and get irritated at people who don't know simple things or type slowly.
Right now I am feeling their pain.

[Chiefahol]

I guess the fundamental problem is what was mentioned earlier. Windows skills are largely not transferrable, and for an experience techie it's extremely frustrating to be back at a level where your grandmother is, when she tries to edit a spreadsheet or add an attachment to an email .

Hahaha, yes it's very true.

You solve problems for 'non-techies' and they think you are a god, someone who can make everything work with ease.

Then you try do stuff on linux, you feel like you fell out of a fishbowl and into a massive ocean with fish that are much larger and faster than you!

I just smile because i know it's hard but i'll be so much further ahead of everyone else once i do learn it.