Ubuntu 16.04 - the new Windows 8 / 10 / Snappy

[Drygar]

http://www.itworld.com/article/2914850/ ... story.html

Snappy Personal is a successor of Desktop Next (a term used by Canonical to describe “The next generation of Ubuntu built on Unity 8 / Mir”). There will now be two images of Ubuntu based on Snappy: Snappy Core and Snappy Personal.

Ubuntu is not moving away from Debian. They are still using Debian to build images of Ubuntu using packages from the archives. What they are doing is moving the desktop to Snappy-based images and applications.

Will it confuse users?

Not really. Canonical will be offering two editions of Ubuntu: one based on the traditional .deb-based desktop and the other based on Snappy.

Canonical will offer a traditional 16.04 Debian package edition and a Snappy desktop so users can choose whichever version they want. Since 16.04 will be LTS it will be critical for Canonical to not ‘touch’ the users who want to use the traditional desktop and at the same time offer an LTS release of Snappy to those who want to climb up the evolutionary ladder.

So those users who want the traditional desktop will be able to download it. And those who want security benefits and a much smoother, Android-like upgrade experience can migrate to the Snappy-based image.

Snappy users will also get more frequent updates to their applications, rather than waiting 6 months for the next Ubuntu release.

In a nutshell these are the benefits of Snappy:

Users don’t need to wait for the archive to get updates to their apps
No need to install PPAs to get updates to applications
Snaps will (eventually) be installable on all form factors (rather than .debs for desktop and clicks for phone)
Snaps are easier to create
Snappy packaged apps are confined, so applications cannot steal data from places they’re not permitted to touch.
Snappy packages can be more easily rolled back when an update goes bad
Snappy packages have delta updates to reduce download size
The Snappy store has automated reviews, meaning uploaded Snaps are available to users very quickly, without manual review -- similar to the Click store today.

IMO, this is like they want to put "mobile" apps into Desktop so make unified OS that runs classic desktop apps (.deb based) and ^modern^ , ^shiny^ ones - Snappy ones.

So, what makes Snappy apps like Metro apps of Win 8 - no need to get updates, they update automatically (semi-automatically). Will be installable on all form factors , supposed to be isolated and more secure - really ? So, imagine Unity and Gnome 3 which is already looking quite like nasty Windows 8 and 10, now with Snappy - resullt is ... OMG

Will flavors and derivatives have a harder time?

Ubuntu has more than half a dozen official flavors and many more derivatives. One question this raises is how will official flavors like Kubuntu and major derivatives like Linux Mint be affected, if at all?

The team says that since they still need the .deb-based archive to build from there won’t be any affect on flavors and derivatives as they can build from that. And if such projects want to take advantage of Snappy then they can easily do that too.

It looks like things are only going to get better for Ubuntu users. It will be interesting to see if other distros will adopt the same approach to improve the user experience.

The biggest question for Ubuntu users is, “to be or not to be”. As a Ubuntu user, will you migrate to Snappy? Tell us in the comments below.

I sincerely hope LM remains as stable as it is now and do not go to the wrong way Canonical is going. If LM developers choose more to improve their Debian edition and ditch Canonical eventually, that would be great, may be.

What do you think, guys ?

[xenopeek]

As a Gnome Shell user I don't get how you're seeing it as being similar to the new Windows interface. It's nothing alike. The new Windows interface is incredibly busy with menus, tiles, launchers, running application icons, status icons, and whatnot cluttering your desktop (I watched this recent walkthrough of it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afcqsN3S0ds). None of that is present on Gnome Shell; Gnome Shell stays out of your way. If anything, the new Windows interface calls to mind KDE 5 in how incredibly busy it is and how it looks. It calls to mind OS X on some features, like how workspaces are handled. None of it calls to mind Unity either.

As for snappy, I think that's going to be a good thing for Ubuntu. Not necessarily for Ubuntu derivatives but only 25% or so of the packages in the Ubuntu repositories are built by Canonical developers (http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=60&t=201927). The rest are built by MOTU teams; developers from the Ubuntu derivatives. So it would be some more work but if snappy is a problem (I don't see it as such; lot's of welcome features for me as a user), the Ubuntu derivatives could bundle their efforts to build those other packages. Anyway, the distance between Ubuntu and Debian as a package base then becomes even smaller so LMDE might make more sense (and Debian was looking into what work is need to get compatibility with PPAs).

The Linux Mint developers are currently working on Linux Mint 17.3, due later this month, and won't start Linux Mint 18 till somewhere next year. Linux Mint 18 would be based on Ubuntu 16.04 LTS, unless that doesn't make sense. No need for us to worry about that now though. Let's set our sights on Linux Mint 17.3.

I doubt this is going to be an issue for Linux Mint 18 either way. Canonical is dropping the Ubuntu Software Center for that release and will replace it with a modified GNOME Software, with adjustments specific to Ubuntu like ability to also install snappy packages. I think for 16.04, being an LTS, they will strive to have compatibility with snappy packages but software repositories will be .deb.

[Aug33]

As I understand it, Linux is about having freedom and choice, and even though opensource is essential for that, the freedom of choice also coveres being able to pick closed-source solutions. This is the essence of it all, right?

So why, why do we not have have a distro and desktop environment that appeal to the masses?
Sure, Linux Mint and Ubuntu are much better today than any earlier Linux distros, but we're still far behind, even in design...

The bull here though, is that people have different taste, but I guess you can describe the taste in desktop environments into groups. The main factor is "change", like for example;
- The Conservative, no changes allowed, Ever!
- The Conservative, no changes allowed, except for extreme slow changes.
- The extreme taste, enjoys some of the radical changes out there, but still a minority group like the ones above.
- The wannabes, want something to be as close as something else, for example a Linux appealing in as closely towards a certain windows version as far as far possible.

And then we have;
- Standardization, tending to the need of the mass users, and not of values of a minority group. Changes are evolving with the mass users, not behind (like the conservatives) or ahead (like the radical extremes), but just at the pace the mass-user wants (standardization).

What strikes me as irksome is that Ubuntu and even Linux Mint seems to have goals to hit the mass user, and just a large market share, but as many as possible, yet is falling short not living up to the huge potential it has, in example it is not true full standardization following the need of the masses.
For example the graphical interface of Mint with Cinnamon is prepared for people of a conservative taste of operating system that allow slow changes (slower than the need of the masses).
Unity is of the more extreme minority group pulling ahead of the masses, something that puts many people from the masses off on first sight giving a bad impression, even if it could otherwise potentially be good.
What the mass market wants is standardization, not minority tastes.

It would be ideal if a Linux distro could start contribute to the standardization of what a mass-user wants from their desktop environment (and OS), and not focus on the needs of a minority group.

I do not know if Linux Mint is truly trying to grow bigger than it already is now, becoming a heavy weight on the OS market. If it is not, then all is good as it is.
But if Linux Mint or Ubuntu is aiming for the mass users, then the dogma of what minority groups want has to go.

The mass user does not have time, energy or skills to make their system look the way they want it, typically they just take it the way it is pressented to them upon first use.
For this reason, Linux Mint will never seem appealing to anyone not cable of customizing it themselves to what they want, unless it hits the minority group that fits them. But a minority group is few in numbers, they are not the masses.

Sorry for the criticism, and if I'm wrong in anything I say then lets take a civil discussion, we learn something new every day, right

[Pjotr]

So why, why do we not have have a distro and desktop environment that appeal to the masses?

We do. It's called Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon.

In look and feel, it's closer to Windows 7 than either Windows 8.x or Windows 10. Off late, Windows 7 had an overwhelming market share. Those people can feel at home in Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon in no time at all.

[Aug33]

So why, why do we not have have a distro and desktop environment that appeal to the masses?

We do. It's called Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon.

In look and feel, it's closer to Windows 7 than either Windows 8.x or Windows 10. Off late, Windows 7 had an overwhelming market share. Those people can feel at home in Linux Mint 17.2 Cinnamon in no time at all.

But that's the thing, do you expect to stay with Windows 7 similar looks for the rest of eternity? or even just the next 10 years? If that is the case, we're going to fall behind in a world where new technology is growing exponentially, and the user interfaces too will evolve under these circumstances.
Virtual and Augmented reality is right around the corner too, and that's without looking at the rapid growth of the current mobile devices. As mobile devices get more powerful, there is less and less incentive to use a desktop, especially if you can hook it up to a large monitor and wi-fi direct or bluetooth keyboard/mouse. Current evidence and research backs up this trend in the market, the mobile devices are becoming more and more popular, so where will it stop? When exactly will mobile devices stop taking market share from desktops? Ever? Computers are getting smaller, we might as well realize it sooner rather than later. Take a company like Kodak, they failed exactly this scenario by believing in the making of films the old fashioned way back when the digital camera came abouts. It almost killed the company, they survived, but barely. There are many examples of this among organizations. If you fall behind, you loose a huge marketshare, and it could easily become the same with Linux Mint, just like how Linux Mint took many users from Ubuntu back when Ubuntu where short sighted for a period of time. Once the damage was done, it was too late.

Even without all those upcoming current and near future threats, Linux Mint still has a design that makes you think it is way older than Windows 7.
It looks gray, neutral, the user settings are unattractive, the windows panel are ugly without users own customizations (not a good design out of the box).
Windows 7 had way more design behind it, yet Linux Mint is way more neutral, without a personal touch for people to connect with.

Linux Mint design is something you can build with, the design does not work out of the box, cause it is hardly there, it is non-existent besides the choices that look like last century.
Combine that with mobile devices rapidly taking over the desktop environment, and even the productivity environment at offices when you can just connect a powerful mobile device to a wireless computer screen/keyboard/mouse.
Basically your phone is always on, you just sit at your work station desk and the phone automatically powers up the screen/keyboard/mouse.

Yes this scenario is some years out still, but the mobile devices grabbing the market share is quite real and happening right now, fall behind, and you're done. Acabado, fini, finished.

Yes, I'm provoking right now, but that's the thing, I'm doing it on purpose to let reality hit hard.
Perhaps it is me who is wrong, but come on now, you can't just take and point at Windows 8 and Windows 10 and scream "HATE" and proclaim that Windows 7 looks is the way to go without taking the rest of the world into account. No matter what you do, the world will move on, and I have my high doubts that an environment like Windows 7 or Mint 17.2 is going to survive the near future if it does not evolve with it.
All it takes is a single better alternative, and you'll be a year or maybe multiple of years behind, and you loose a crazy lot of Linux Mint users.

Stay ahead of the curve, not behind it.

[Jedinovice]

Even without all those upcoming current and near future threats, Linux Mint still has a design that makes you think it is way older than Windows 7.
It looks gray, neutral, the user settings are unattractive, the windows panel are ugly without users own customizations (not a good design out of the box).
Windows 7 had way more design behind it, yet Linux Mint is way more neutral, without a personal touch for people to connect with.

OK, lots to say and so will split over multiple posts.

This is a classic case of Linux not being able to win for losing.

If it is not enough like Windows nobody will use it, we are told, because people do not like to tearn something new. (True - unless it's a mobile device in which the newer, the better - odd, uh?)
If it is just like Windows 7 then Linux is behind the curve.

Heads I win, tails you lose.

I have thought long and hard about the diversity of distros and UI's and whether this is a good thing or a bad thing. I have eventually concluded that it is a good thing. Reasons?

1) The fact there is one OS to rule them all and no other GUI on the mass market for generic hardware (sane Linux, stand by on that one) is because Bill Gates personally saw that any and all competition was exterminated. If Microsoft had not walked all over the law and used every nasty trick on the book we would have had GEM, GEOS and we do not know what actually competing with Windows and people used to switching between systems - as happens in any other technological field including cars, smartphones, tablets, where there is not one size fits all. The consumer base has been forced/brainwashed into "One OS, one UI fits all." That is where Linux suffers with adoption with those that believe Windows is the ONLY way no matter how expensive or tortuous to use. (This policy has worked brilliantly for the desktop but not for mobile.)

2) Choice leads to development. Thanks to KDE and GNOME duking it out there has been actual development as the two have fought for Linux supremacy based on design and not extermination. This has led to actual development! KDE developed from Windows 95 and sports a highly customisable, powerful, technologically far more sophistated UI to Windows - ANY version! Some say it is too complex. Well, GNOME (and then Unity) took the opposite approach, locking everything down and moving away from the Windows 95 paradigm. So, if you want a "This is it no more, no less, one way to do things, easy to support UI" you have it! Also, Unity is very geared towards mobile devices. Cool. But there was a reaction to the new GNOME "Our way or the highway" approach and the likes of Cinnamon and Mate appeared which have DEVELOPED and become more powerful over time. Now, there isn't much love for KDE here in Mint - the distro was always a GNOME love test - but Cinnamon certainly provides what I regard as something like a KDE UI for GTK. However it goes… the result of the fighting has been development of features! Result, out of the five new UI features in Windows 10, four of them had been in Linus for a minimum of five years. Microsoft killed of the GUI in the 1980's to keep everybody on DOS until a fudge was worked out to allow (barely) multitasking DOS and the eventual creation of Windows 3.0 - which was originally a secret programmers project because they could not get Bill and co. to actually invest in the GUI!

3) I agree that defaults are very important. Most users go with what is presented to them no matter what. So defaults will remain defaults. But here's reality… most users have already been brainwashed into believing that Windows is the ONLY OS worth using. Period. I have given up selling Linux to Indonesians. If I put Linux, any version, on a laptop, Windows 7 will be put back via pirate copy within 24 hours to one week. The reason? Not that Linux is hard to use but because nobody wants to learn something new - they have taught that office = Microsoft office, graphics = Adobe Photoshop, software = Windows. End.

4) That, and... nobody around them knows Linux so the second they hit trouble somebody tells them to go back to Windows and they do. The GUI has nothing to do with it. No matter how easy the GUI is… people would rather learn a new GUI for Windows than go with Linux rendering that behaves just like Windows. I mean, how many people have jumped for Windows 8, despite its many failings, compared to those who jumped to Zorin? The big boss from Jakarta has an i7 running Windows 8. He has no idea how to use the laptop. But he doesn't care as:

a) It's Windows and, therefore, is automatically 'safe'
b) Windows came with the laptop and so it just works without any install handling
c) When he can't work out how to do something, he gives the laptop to someone on the staff who can do it for him. (This is critically important because with Linux he can't do that and the boss is NOT going to learn a new OS - or any technical skills, that cannot be dumped one someone else.)

So the GUI is actually not much on people's mind. It's hand holding that concerns them. For every Windows problem there are 100 techies around to help. For every Linux problem… there is a forum which is not enough for those who need a techie to do it for them. Every time I have given Linux to someone in Indonesian, they have got their techie friend to put Windows back on because that's all their techie friend knows.

5) Re: Point 3 - there exists a Windows XP/7 GUI style OS called Zorin. Nobody uses it. KDE is based on Windows 95 - and still people won't go Linux. Mint XFCE is a Windows XP lookalike, still nobody will use it. It has to be Windows. Many people will not upgrade from Windows XP and when I tell them how dangerous it is... they shrug. Comfort zone is very hard to break through. Have you every tried to convert a Mac user? If so, how long did you spend in hospital?

6) Re: the file manager, OK, I like KDE 4 (looking at Plasma 5 in VM I am not so impressed) and so my exposure to the other file managers is limited… but, I contend that dolphin is the most powerful, user friendly file manager going and more than walks over Windows explorer which, frankly, functionality remains the same since XP - at most. Of course, here are options. But if Cinnamon is the only GUI to consider then, indeed, it could be argued that its design is, maybe a little behind the Windows curve. (I don't buy it personally but, for the sake of argument) but Cinnamon is not Linux, not even Mint. You want sheer, raw power? Go KDE. Want fast and familiar, go XFCE. Want balance of power and speed? Go Cinnamon. Windows 10? GUI eats up your RAM and leaves you with a mess of a UI. In terms of design, Linux is way ahead now. It doesn't make the slightest bit of difference. Average Joe will take out a loan to by a more powerful laptop with Windows 10 preinstalled or just go with a smartphone instead.

[Jedinovice]

7) The GUI does factor in when it comes to people's choice of OS in that it has to be familiar if they cannot drop it on a coworker. Windows 8 blew out the old interface methodology and the public loudly rejected it. Windows 10 is a compromise… and it is not still not being adopted except by forced upgrades. Now, in reading around, I am noticing on a LOT of the tech forums the users are finally jumping to Linux - and Mint at that! About 10% of posts on Windows 10 spying are "That's it, I've install Limux Mint and am loving it!" The reason, though? The endless spying. The UI had nothing to do with it. The cost of Windows did not count, the awful UI did not count, the (coming) subscription charging - all of that was OK. But the endless telementary has proven to be the final straw for those that understand the problem. Then the users come to love Linux… but, before, they were not jumping. Even when Windows 8 betrayed the techies expectations, they waited until 10 convinced Microsof would do a Windows 7 on them. Microsoft did not. Only then did the techies walk and only after the forced upgrades and Microsoft's intransigence.

OK, we are talking techies here - but Linux is only going to go with the techies because they are the only one's who know about the existence of Linux and are capable of installing it. Average Jo… will either stay with XP/7 until their laptop physically collapses, or jump to a tablet. Most people do not need a full laptop any more anyway and the public know it. By the way, the techies were concerned about Windows 10 spying. Average Jo just shrugs and accepts it. As long as they can get on facebook without hassle they won't care. Now, the fact they can get onto Facebook via smartphone… that changes things!
7) Tablets and smartphones are now way more cool than laptops anyway. For content consumption, which equals 90% of users, mobile devices and mobile UI"s are the way to go. So arguing about the desktop UI is a bit redundant now. Linux already has it's foot in the door with Android and the best the likes of Mint can do it provide the best desktop experience, geared towards content production, that it can... which will be a niche market. Where it counts, Linux is already winning. How Plasma 5 will fit in here I do not know. I wish it well but I suspect the device market is already sown up. We will see.

And finally… the real change in Ubuntu is the snappy packages, not the GUI! That's the big news with Ubuntu. Whether snappy packages are a Good Thing (TM) or a Bad Thing(TM) I honestly cannot tell. At this level, I am entirely pragmatic. As long as I can install my apps, run my software and keep the install files (I copy out the .deb files) so I own the software, I don't really care.

[Jedinovice]

Also, a point about trust.

I have learnt the hard way that average Joe will not consider Linux, no matter how good it is because of their belief that laptop/desktop=Windows. Only when Windows will absolutely, totally, NOT do what they want and all Windows alternatives (fixes, patches, older versions) have failed will they seriously consider going Linux. I mean, the only user here I have managed to get running Mint Linux, beside my wife, and stuck with it, has been my manager after Windows 7 refused to behave correctly on his laptop, even after I installed 7 from scratch for him - under protest - and when I told him, "If this does not work, you have to go Linux!" *and* after just stopping him sending the laptop for repair by Samsung after he hit a glitch in Linux which he, personally, did not witness... which I fixed by flicking a switch. And even then he was counting all of the problems he hit in Linux until I smoothed it all out for him and now, begrudgingly, he accepts that Linux works. That's it. My sole convert beside my wife. There is just too much trust invested in Windows. People are emotionally attached to Windows and it takes a lot to break that.It's a bit like the abused wife in a way!

The techies are leaping to Mint now because Microsoft have just screwed them around too much but it took a lot to do it.

- Windows 8 - we'll ignore Linux and wait for Windows 10 (or install classic shell.)
- Subscription charging - we'll ignore Linux and pay for pro edition.
- Endless viruses - we'll ignore Linux and pay for a virus checker
- Windows is a resource hog - We're techies. We'll pay for big hardware!
- Product activation - This was accepted without a whimper! (This was what drove me to Linux actually.)

But the relentless spying? That was the point the techies seem to have cracked - well, all 10% of them from my online reading but way more than ever before. I have never seen so many "That's it, I've gone (Mint) Linux!" posts. Staggering. It seems at this point, techies, who value security, gave up on Microsoft. The company had stretched the bonds of trust too far even for techies previously wedded to WIndows - and I contend this must have been a process whether each point above stretched the bond of trust to the point where the telemenary snapped it.

But this point has NOT come for Average Joe - and cannot come from techies who have to work in Windows for, say, .Net programming, propritory Windows software coding, office use, etc. I also contend that, for average Joe, the day they will go Linux will probably never arrive - unless they know a techie who is their best mate and their supplier of Windows support and that techies converts to Linux. Only then will trust in their techie friend override trust in Microsoft and even then... it dpend on whether there is another techie friend who still thinks Windows is the way to go!


So... only when users are totally, completely, utterly, beyond all hope of reconciliation, sick of Microsoft, will said users consider Linux - and I mean really *consider* it leave alone adopt it. There has to be a breaking point - a point of totally lack of faith. For many Windows 10 is it but, for average Joe, no. They will learn to use Windows 10 when they buy a new laptop and yet claim they cannot learn ANY Linux GUI just… because. Microsoft still has the trust of the vast majority. It does not matter how good the Linux GUI or anything else is… fact is that people have emotionally invested in Microsoft and Microsoft have deliberately set themselves up as the only way to do computing. However, there is no such trust in the mobile marketplace where android and Apple have it down up and there Microsoft is finding the boot is on the other foot.

I also hear from my students that there is a LOT of interest in the coming steamboxes because there is a lot of trust in Steam for quality games. Once a tech company gets sufficient trust, it's hell's own job shifting them. The Xbox fell over - actually to my surprise - because people had already decided that games = playstation. (Try and convert a Mac user!) Microsoft's power is being broken but not by the desktop. I am told, and I have to accept this claim as I am not a gamer - that a lot of the rich young in my part of Indonesia (which is where the rich, young hang out) associate gaming with Steam. If it has steam on the box they will buy it, Interesting
So it's in the mobile and game market Microsoft will be toppled. Linux will remain just a niche in the desktop world but - given Microsoft is losing trust on both the desktop and cloud - a much larger niche. Ubuntu are investing in that with Unity and KDE with Plasma 5. So they are in the marketplace anyway. Mint should stay where it is. Only the conservative are going to use the desktop now for anything meaningful.

Given all that, Linux has just continue as it is, developing it's own UI's, competing with itself and improving the UI experience. Me? I love KDE 4. It's the GUI I was looking for. (Less certain about Plasma 5, mind you.) I have shown KDE running rings around Windows. Everyone is impressed, smiles, and goes back to Windows.The GUI is just no going to sell Linux to users.

[Drygar]

... Linux Mint still has a design that makes you think it is way older than Windows 7.
It looks gray, neutral, the user settings are unattractive, the windows panel are ugly without users own customizations (not a good design out of the box).
Windows 7 had way more design behind it, yet Linux Mint is way more neutral, without a personal touch for people to connect with.

That's a pure lie.

Linux Mint design is all that people prefer.
Have a look at this article for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_sha ... ng_systems


Windows 7 -> more than 50%
Windows XP -> more than 9%
Windows Vista -> about 2%
Mac OS X -> about 9%

What this all means -> about 70% of people worldwide still use and prefer an operating system that is desktop centric, an operating system that is centered around the Desktop, "Start button", lines, icons, these kind of stuff, not silly Metro, shiny pictures changing, etc. Even Chrome OS is desktop like.
What is it that most businesses around the world use and prefer -> Desktop one, not phone one.

Linux Mint design is something you can build with, the design does not work out of the box, cause it is hardly there, it is non-existent besides the choices that look like last century.
Combine that with mobile devices rapidly taking over the desktop environment, and even the productivity environment at offices when you can just connect a powerful mobile device to a wireless computer screen/keyboard/mouse.
Basically your phone is always on, you just sit at your work station desk and the phone automatically powers up the screen/keyboard/mouse.

Yes this scenario is some years out still, but the mobile devices grabbing the market share is quite real and happening right now, fall behind, and you're done. Acabado, fini, finished.

That's what people like you were telling some years ago about tablets, but look now - tablets are slowly fading away. Desktop oriented OS is and will always be the preferred choice.

[Drygar]

And then we have;
- Standardization, tending to the need of the mass users, and not of values of a minority group. Changes are evolving with the mass users, not behind (like the conservatives) or ahead (like the radical extremes), but just at the pace the mass-user wants (standardization).

What strikes me as irksome is that Ubuntu and even Linux Mint seems to have goals to hit the mass user, and just a large market share, but as many as possible, yet is falling short not living up to the huge potential it has, in example it is not true full standardization following the need of the masses.

With all due respect to you - thanks, God, Linus Torvald does not think like you do.
GNU/Linux idea is not going with the masses usually.

As far as I know Linux was initially created because some minoroties needs who didn't want or couldn't afford paying for UNIX OSes.
Nowadays, its the minorities needs that Linux serves (on Desktop side - I do not mean mobile devices and servers). And let it be that way because if GNU/Linux goes to the masses, then it will all change. Microsoft Windows is the the crap it is today because Microsoft think only for the masses and only for the businesses. But if you have 100 sheep and 99 sheep before the last one decide they should jump and fall from a precipice, the last one should not follow it just because the masses do this.

bodhi-linux-sparta.png

[z31fanatic]

What do you think, guys ?

If they see a market for it, why not? Plus it would be good to have another tablet OS in the market. Competition is always good and pushes companies to come up with better things and we consumers benefit from that.

[z31fanatic]

Microsoft Windows is the the crap it is today because Microsoft think only for the masses and only for the businesses.

That's your opinion.
Windows is far from crap. It's very good actually.

[Jedinovice]

Microsoft Windows is the the crap it is today because Microsoft think only for the masses and only for the businesses.

That's your opinion.
Windows is far from crap. It's very good actually.

And that's your opinon.

[z31fanatic]

And that's your opinon.

Which happens to be a fact

[Drygar]

Which happens to be a fact

No, it's not a fact, it's opinion, consumer type of opinion.

Most people around (and specifically computer users) the world have never heard of GNU/Linux, all they know is Windows and they do not know of any alternatives. Or even if they knew about them, they do not consider it because of many factors including the Microsoft monopoly, the way businesses works nowadays, government decisions , government protections or just because it is easier with Windows - it's easier because it is known better by the masses [habits] . Let's not forget about history of personal PCs (the early years of Apple, Microsoft) and how it all happened many years ago.

[Aug33]

That's a pure lie.

Linux Mint design is all that people prefer.
Have a look at this article for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_sha ... ng_systems


Windows 7 -> more than 50%
Windows XP -> more than 9%
Windows Vista -> about 2%
Mac OS X -> about 9%

You cannot argure that way with data, if you make a bold statement that what I said was a lie, then do not try to prove me wrong with data of preferences on OS that has nothing to do with design and style, and from wikipedia of all places. The least you could have done was to go to one of the sources in the linked wikipedia page and find the scientific paper and make sure the data is handled and collected correctly before stating them as a god-forgiven fact.
Also people do not pick a OS purely out of style and design. For example I use Linux Mint, despite that I find it ugly as hell out of the box, and that is despite of style and design mattering a lot to me. People have all sorts of different reasons to pick a OS. Windows 8 and Windows 10 are privacy leakers for one.
Also I actually managed pretty fine with Windows 10 design and style, I liked it. But I did not like many other aspects of Windows 10. Again it is not all about style.

Looking at the very same wikipedia page you linked you can see "Device Shipments, 2014"
Obviously, this means new devices over a full year, so lets have the data.
Android 48.61%
iOS/OS X 11.04%
Windows 14.00%
Other 26.34%

Assuming the data you found in this wikipedia page is correct, then it takes no math genius to see that smartphone market is growing rapidly.
Do you know when it stops growing? No? I asked this very same question too if you cared to read my post properly. As I said, one knows where it stops.
Deduction however makes it clear that the more useful your phone becomes, the bigger a replacement it becomes to a computer.
Look 10 years ago, how good were phones back then? It was hardly a smartphone at all. Look 10 years ahead, and what do you think you'll be seeing?
I can't even be arsed to explain it in further details, tired of this discussion before it even started. If you can't put it together yourself now, then that's it. Not going to try convince you.

If you're going to call out peoples words as lies, at least use data properly. There is so many ways to attack this scientifically, what you're saying would never hold up in a science paper as you're making a lot of assumptions out of data that can have multiple of meanings, and you claim they have a single clear meaning. Flat out wrong in every possible way. Paper dismissed.

That's what people like you were telling some years ago about tablets, but look now - tablets are slowly fading away. Desktop oriented OS is and will always be the preferred choice.

Just quoting a past scenario and proclaim this situation to be under the same conditions is naive.
If you can't put yourself in the position of a possible threat and see the danger, then by all means sit it out and let it happen.
There are OBVIOUS reasons why the tablet did not succeed, and I definitely was not among one of those religious claimers saying the tablet will take it all (given how many shortcomings a tablet have), I base my assessment on science and logical thinking, you know, deduction, you might have heard of it?
At any rate, mobile phones is a possible likely danger already happening right now, if you want to close your eyes to it or not is up to you, I can't help you there.

Why can't people have a civil discussion without using emotions, or worse emotions as argumentation. Next time, try to at least be civil about it and start a discussion instead.
There are too many posts and too little time to quote all, but at least know that I respect your input if you do not base it on emotions/religion but had logical, reflective reasoning behind it. I have zero respect for rudeness or emotional claims.

[xenopeek]

This topic is becoming way too personal. Let's all back off a bit.