Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Chat about Linux in general
Forum rules
Do not post support questions here. Before you post read the forum rules. Topics in this forum are automatically closed 6 months after creation.
Welly Wu
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:02 pm
Location: Nutley, New Jersey

Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by Welly Wu »

Before I get myself permanently banned, let me revise this thread by stating that GNU/Linux users should not always tell other people to use it just because they do themselves. We should be like the BSD UNIX users and allow people to use whatever PC they want to. End.
Last edited by LockBot on Wed Dec 28, 2022 7:16 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Topic automatically closed 6 months after creation. New replies are no longer allowed.
User avatar
jimallyn
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9075
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Wenatchee, WA USA

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by jimallyn »

Yes, people have a right to use whatever they like. But you know how it is when you find something that's really cool, and you just want to share it with all your friends? That's how many of us are about Linux. And some of us are tired of hearing about - and being asked to fix - all the problems they have with viruses and such.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
Welly Wu
Level 3
Level 3
Posts: 170
Joined: Tue Sep 14, 2010 2:02 pm
Location: Nutley, New Jersey

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by Welly Wu »

That's true. But what works for me is probably different from what works for you (even though we both use GNU/Linux at times). I really don't think people care about desktop or mobile operating systems as much as the general public is pushed by device manufacturers and their advertisers to buy the latest and greatest hardware toy. Hardware drives software development in my opinion and a good example is it does very little good to try to download and install the latest Google Android 5.1 Lollipop on a 2009 Android device. Most people junk their old hardware and they trade up to a newer one that is shinier. This is not to say that people don't play with or enjoy desktop or mobile operating systems, but the reason why GNU/Linux has a hard and tough battle ahead of it is because its' users push it so hard to new users that are not familiar with it. Then, they find out it doesn't meet their needs and they give up quietly. The advocacy is like word of mouth salesmanship and it's eerily familiar to dealing with a used car salesman who lies and hides the truth to unsuspecting buyers in order to push a lemon off the lot. This is not to say that GNU/Linux is a terrible desktop operating system, but it can taste bitter to some people when they discover it isn't for them. I think that the best way to get more people to at least consider GNU/Linux is to let them touch your PC and use it for a long period of time while you coach them into the neat features by doing as little talking as possible and show more about what it can do for you as the owner of the PC or device.
User avatar
jimallyn
Level 19
Level 19
Posts: 9075
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2014 7:34 pm
Location: Wenatchee, WA USA

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by jimallyn »

Yeah, I think a lot of people, once they try Linux, they like it. A friend of mine worked for me at my shop, where we used both Windows and Linux, so he had experience with both. When he got his own computer, I gave him the choice of having Windows on it or having Linux on it, and based on his experiences at the shop with both, he chose Linux.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
Nilla Wafer

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by Nilla Wafer »

I only tried Linux because I had nothing to lose. Windows was crippled and slow, and using my computer was just frustrating me more than helping me. Oh, and all those interruptions! Windows needs this, Windows needs that, please update this, please select that - are you sure? - Please wait (go watch a movie or something) while Windows does something you never asked it to...

I don't have money for a new computer. And even if I did, I don't know enough about computers to choose one. Plus sales people take advantage of kids like me who don't know anything about what they're buying. So what did I have to lose by trying out a free OS? Not a thing. And so much to gain! Like not having to spend months worth of allowance and babysitting money on a computer.

Why so serious? Let me count the reasons:
  • It's ecologically sound. It keeps perfectly good computers from being thrown in the landfill.

    It's economically sensible. It's free!

    It's academically awesome. I can do all my school work on it at home instead of waiting in line for one of the school computers (which by the way are also crippled, slow and full of interruptions).

    It's socially super. A high school girl who is not connected to social media is - well, I guess I could live without it, but why?
I have shared it with friends who had the same issues I did with some old "junk" computer they can't afford to replace. Most end up spending money for a new machine anyway, and if they give me their old "junk" ones I put Linux Mint on them and give them to my church's school. So add that to the list too: It's ecclesiastically excellent!

~nilla
User avatar
excollier
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 455
Joined: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:31 pm
Location: Donegal, Ireland

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by excollier »

I simply couldn't be bothered with all the wasted time, expense and hassle of Windows, when I can do everything I need with a Linux distro - simple.
Maintaing three Linux computers is easier and less time consuming than one Windows.
Last edited by excollier on Tue May 05, 2015 8:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
Registered Linux user #557695
MX Linux user these days - I introduce newbies via Mint
exploder
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5623
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:50 am
Location: HartfordCity, Indiana USA

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by exploder »

Nilla Waffer, you have the right idea! With the global economy being what it is right now many can not afford to just run out and buy a new computer. Most of the time these older computers are still perfectly good machines that can run Linux nice. Most people just want to surf the web, e-mail, use Facebook or Twitter, etc and they can easily do all these things with Linux.

I try and let people pick the user interface they are interested in, Unity, Cinnamon, Xfce, etc. Most people are shocked that they have so much choice! Linux is point and click just like anything else these days and most people have no problem adapting to the change. Generally most people are just afraid of what they don't know, once they see and use Linux they realize it's not that difficult at all.

I agree with Welly Wu that we should not try and force our views on others. Some people are just die hard Windows fans, that's just the way it is. My wife's boss told her that Linux was a poor mans version of Windows! I just laughed! He has a Windows mind set and that is all he knows. A lot of people seem more receptive to trying Linux because of their experience with Android phones.

I installed Linux for a couple of people I used to work with, before I knew it people were coming up and asking me to install it on their computers. I did not have to twist anyone's arm with my beliefs, they just heard good things from their friends and wanted the same experience.

Edit: I should mention that I charge people a fair price to install Windows because it takes all day to update, install codecs, install application, anti Virus, defragment, etc. I will install any version of Linux for free or a very small cost just to earn a little extra money. For my co-workers usually when they asked me what the owed me I would tell them, a cup of coffee!
Last edited by exploder on Tue May 05, 2015 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
English Invader
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:53 am

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by English Invader »

I love Linux, but I wouldn't call myself a Linux zealot. I fully understand the concept of different users having different needs and, in most cases, the OS that ticks most of the boxes is Windows.

For anyone who is serious about PC gaming, Windows is a must. Sure, Linux has a Steam client but the library is mostly Indie games, Valve first person shooters and the odd token mainstream title like Football Manager or Euro Truck Simulator. Wine can help out with the odd game here and there, but it's nothing you can bank on. The Windows game library is like a huge banquet while the Linux library is the crumbs off the table.

I'm content with the Linux game library because my gaming requirements aren't that big (as long as I've got a decent football management sim and a few emulators I'm happy) but the vast majority of gamers won't be content with that and for them Linux will be a waste of time.

It's also a waste of time for people who need a printer at home or need to use professional/business applications at home. Linux is for the hobbyist, not the end-user.
exploder
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5623
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:50 am
Location: HartfordCity, Indiana USA

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by exploder »

I think of Linux as more than a hobbyist operating system. So many things we use everyday run on Linux. Windows was around for 10 years before Linux came along. Microsoft also made home computers a reality in the first place too. Like it or not Windows 95 was revolutionary with the way it made computing so simple. These things shaped the way we view and use computers. Linux was originally designed to be like Unix, it took years to have what we have today.
User avatar
Pjotr
Level 23
Level 23
Posts: 19888
Joined: Mon Mar 07, 2011 10:18 am
Location: The Netherlands (Holland) 🇳🇱
Contact:

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by Pjotr »

exploder wrote:I think of Linux as more than a hobbyist operating system.
That's the point.... Linux is the *professional* choice.

Not only on web servers (where it has the largest market share) and supercomputers (domination of 97 %), but also on desktop computing (around 2 %, but that includes all home users as well, who of course still massively use their pre-installed Windows). Linux is serious business.
Tip: 10 things to do after installing Linux Mint 21.3 Virginia
Keep your Linux Mint healthy: Avoid these 10 fatal mistakes
Twitter: twitter.com/easylinuxtips
All in all, horse sense simply makes sense.
exploder
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5623
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:50 am
Location: HartfordCity, Indiana USA

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by exploder »

Well put Pjotr! :)
JohnBobSmith

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by JohnBobSmith »

English Invader wrote: For anyone who is serious about PC gaming, Windows is a must. ... Linux is for the hobbyist, not the end-user.
I disagree with the above quoted statements. I'll break down my views for friendly discussion below.

Depending on what you consider to be "serious" PC gaming, then yes, Linux may not be for you. If you need to play Call of Duty, Battlefield, or GTA, you can forget Linux altogether. However, I wouldn't say Windows is a must have for gaming. Some of Vavle's cross-platform games have huge player bases (CS:GO and Dota 2 mostly). Also, the indie games you mentioned on steam are fantastic. There is everything from FPS games (Verdun 1914-1918), to puzzles (Waveform), to physics sandbox type games (Besiege), and more! While these games are not mainstream in the sense that they have the largest amounts of money or developers, they do prove one thing. That gaming on Linux is, and will continue to be, a great alternative for those who are willing to try it. Which brings me to my next point, the end user.

There definitely seems to be an ease of use issue in regards to printers. I myself was frustrated with the CUPS interface and hence didn't bother setting up my wireless printer. As for business type applications like office suites, I'm mostly using google docs, as Libre Office is not that great. These issues might be a real turn-off for some users. However, I disagree with the statement that "Linux is for the hobbyist, not the end-user." I strongly feel that Linux as an everyday desktop is a great option, for a number of reasons. The top 2 reasons though, would have to be security and reliability. I could go on a lengthy rant, but that would serve no purpose. Basically, Linux is more secure overall in regards to malware, viruses, and the likes. Your system is unlikely be hosed unless you do something stupid. The next one, reliability, is important for a lot of people. If the system is always crashing, freezing, failing in random ways, etc. then why use it? I've rarely had applications (or the entire OS) completely lock, freeze, or crash, which I am grateful for. These are benefits that anyone, and everyone deserve, not just hobbyists.

To wrap up, I feel that gaming on Linux is a great option. So long as you aren't a die-hard Call of Duty or Battlefield fan, there may be many options to explore. As for printers and professional applications, that area is indeed lacking. However, those aspects shouldn't stop someone from enjoying the many benefits of a Linux distribution, including security and reliability. :)
killer de bug

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by killer de bug »

Welly Wu wrote:Before I get myself permanently banned, let me revise this thread by stating that GNU/Linux users should not always tell other people to use it just because they do themselves. We should be like the BSD UNIX users and allow people to use whatever PC they want to. End.
Thanks for the (useless) advise.

Like I often say: I advise Linux to people I care about and Windows to all the others and especially to my enemies.
exploder
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5623
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:50 am
Location: HartfordCity, Indiana USA

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by exploder »

Like I often say: I advise Linux to people I care about and Windows to all the others and especially to my enemies.
I like that! I may have to quote you in the future! :) :D :)
trapperjohn

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by trapperjohn »

Well, my spouse was burning through laptops with commercial OSs by simply watching videos, browsing the web, and getting/sending email. During movies the units would roast at 85-90 C. Booting the system would give the endless "waiting" routine while loading settings. The system would crawl while doing updates and while running several "just in case you need it" services. Once toasted, we'd buy a new (used) Dell and I'd spend a day or two getting it setup according to the user's specifications... entering the endless key strings into authentication wizards, getting the desktop content/items just so, configuring the email client, and recreating the bookmarks, libraries, and directory structures (as best I could).

So, the last time a laptop died from heat stroke, I installed a Linux OS. With Wine, I conformed with the user's MS Office specification. It runs movies at a cool 60 C. It boots to a stable desktop in 20 seconds. It runs just the services required, and nothing else. I can dd the partition to another drive and, provided I'm using open-source drivers, I can swap the drive into a completely different laptop. I can migrate the machine to a VM or copy it to another drive, ensuring that the next, inevitable crash will be a minor glitch.

To provide a sense of confidence I installed the Linux OS as a duel boot with Windows and I installed another (licensed and paid for) copy of Windows in a VM to run while in Linux. The spouse no longer opts to boot Windows nor run the VM. I get zinged occasionally about the fringy names for some open source packages, but birds are singing.

I done this for a few friends as well. I am now a lonely guy, no loner called upon to unhack a computer once a month.
killer de bug

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by killer de bug »

trapperjohn wrote: So, the last time a laptop died from heat stroke, I installed a Linux OS. With Wine, I conformed with the user's MS Office specification. It runs movies at a cool 60 C.
Mine also. But contrary to you, I still think it's too hot :lol:
killer de bug

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by killer de bug »

exploder wrote: I like that! I may have to quote you in the future! :) :D :)
Feel free to reuse. There is no copyright. You don't even have to cite the original author. Enjoy, it's free :D
trapperjohn

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by trapperjohn »

Mine also. But contrary to you, I still think it's too hot
Well, I cheat. I use Arch for any machine that has an NVidia and/or Intel GPU that might be used for videos. With multi-use machines, I often create a separate boot for media applications/videos that has essentially no other resource hogging processes - just a boring xfce4 desktop... no CUPs, no nothing. Sometimes I even scale the CPU frequency and I have seen no video compromises. With Optimus enabled GPUs I haven't found it necessary to primusrun VLC, etc. I do have a junker desktop that has a legacy ATI CPU that I use with a smart TV. I use Debian on this machine because ATI proprietary drivers aren't supported on Arch and the smart TV doesn't properly scan with the open source driver. (So, I do use closed-source stuff when it works better for me.)

Interestingly, the smart TV has an embedded Linux OS, as does my router and IP printer. This enables the manufacturer to accomplish, with minimal space and resources, a specific function(s) with no unneeded overhead... presumably for years, often without a reboot. In the not-for-profit world there are millions of laptops, used only for web/email/office, that are geologically slow and volcanically hot with commercial OS upgrades for extinct releases. I play IT geek for a few of these community groups and they are now Linux boosters too.

The OP has a good point. There is no advantage in hustling happy people off bar stools. I prefer to wait until they are begging for sobriety. :wink:
English Invader
Level 4
Level 4
Posts: 247
Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2015 11:53 am

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by English Invader »

JohnBobSmith wrote:
English Invader wrote: For anyone who is serious about PC gaming, Windows is a must. ... Linux is for the hobbyist, not the end-user.
Depending on what you consider to be "serious" PC gaming, then yes, Linux may not be for you. If you need to play Call of Duty, Battlefield, or GTA, you can forget Linux altogether. However, I wouldn't say Windows is a must have for gaming. Some of Vavle's cross-platform games have huge player bases (CS:GO and Dota 2 mostly). Also, the indie games you mentioned on steam are fantastic. There is everything from FPS games (Verdun 1914-1918), to puzzles (Waveform), to physics sandbox type games (Besiege), and more! While these games are not mainstream in the sense that they have the largest amounts of money or developers, they do prove one thing. That gaming on Linux is, and will continue to be, a great alternative for those who are willing to try it.
The point is that all those Indie games (and more) are already available on Windows. If you want an uncompromised game library, whether it's on Steam, emulators or disc games you found for 50p in a charity shop, Windows is essential.

As already mentioned, the Linux game library is enough for me because my requirements aren't that high and I feel that the benefits of Linux are worth the trade-off, but not everyone will feel that way.

I think Linux is for the hobbyist because it requires a level of dedication that most people don't have. The end-user wants an immediate out of the box experience, he doesn't want to mess around with the command line or PPAs for something he should be able to install at the click of a mouse. He also wants to be able to run the programs he wants without having to rely on additional software like Wine or having to make do with open source alternatives.
exploder
Level 15
Level 15
Posts: 5623
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:50 am
Location: HartfordCity, Indiana USA

Re: Why so serious about GNU/Linux?

Post by exploder »

Just my opinion but isn't computer gaming a hobby itself?
Locked

Return to “Chat about Linux”