WOW Ubuntu is thinking of ditching it's Debian Base

[Crewp]

I wonder if Ubuntu's moving away from Debian as a base will effect Mint's Main edition? What do you all think?

[Pjotr]

I wonder if Ubuntu's moving away from Debian as a base will effect Mint's Main edition? What do you all think?

Do you have a source?

[exploder]

I read this too.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonica ... 9180.shtml

[Ark987]

https://plus.google.com/+WillCooke/posts/AxfoU3N1Ezo

If this is true that 'Snappy' will be the core for Ubuntu or whatever it will be I want to write a short open letter to mint team:

Dear Linux Mint team,

Please reserve more resources for LMDE2 project to polish it according to your philosophies and be on-par with the Ubuntu editions.

With kind regards.
Ark987

What does this mean? that Ubuntu is not based on Linux anymore? I wonder what will come next?...

New license changes, spoiler alert!:

Code: Select all

UOS Boot ROM code and firmware is provided only for use on UOS-branded hardware and you may not copy, modify or redistribute the UOS Boot ROM code or firmware, or any portions thereof.

[Pjotr]

I read this too.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonica ... 9180.shtml

Hmmm.... Interesting, but it's not clear to me if they're going to replace the entire Debian base altogether, or just the .deb install package mechanism.

[Ark987]

I read this too.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/Canonica ... 9180.shtml

Hmmm.... Interesting, but it's not clear to me if they're going to replace the entire Debian base altogether, or just the .deb install package mechanism.

Yeah it seems so... I found another link: http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... EB-To-Snap

[Flemur]

Hmmm.... Interesting, but it's not clear to me if they're going to replace the entire Debian base altogether, or just the .deb install package mechanism.

Yeah, those articles were pretty terrible. Buncha buzzwords 'n' adspeak.

This one is better:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTg1ODM

"We call it “snappy” because that’s the new bullet-proof mechanism for app delivery and system updates; it’s completely different to the traditional package-based Ubuntu server and desktop. The snappy system keeps each part of Ubuntu in a separate, read-only file, and does the same for each application. That way, developers can deliver everything they need to be confident their app will work exactly as they intend, and we can take steps to keep the various apps isolated from one another, and ensure that updates are always perfect. Of course, that means that apt-get won’t work, but that’s OK since developers can reuse debs to make their snappy apps, and the core system is exactly the same as any other Ubuntu system – server or desktop."

[Crewp]

I'd love to hear Clem's opinion on this.

[Pjotr]

This one is better:
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=n ... px=MTg1ODM

"We call it “snappy” because that’s the new bullet-proof mechanism for app delivery and system updates; it’s completely different to the traditional package-based Ubuntu server and desktop. The snappy system keeps each part of Ubuntu in a separate, read-only file, and does the same for each application. That way, developers can deliver everything they need to be confident their app will work exactly as they intend, and we can take steps to keep the various apps isolated from one another, and ensure that updates are always perfect. Of course, that means that apt-get won’t work, but that’s OK since developers can reuse debs to make their snappy apps, and the core system is exactly the same as any other Ubuntu system – server or desktop."

OK, thanks.... Sounds good: I like the concept of bullet-proof isolated applications. But I´m probably going to miss apt-get...

[exploder]

Ubuntu is always doing something... I do not see any of the other variants worrying about this.

[Crewp]

True, from Mir, to Unity etc. They seem to almost want it all ( in house ) but I always preferred Debian. To me there stability cannot be beat. I was just wondering if this will have an impact on Mint's Main Edition? I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Ark987]

True, from Mir, to Unity etc. They seem to almost want it all ( in house ) but I always preferred Debian. To me there stability cannot be beat. I was just wondering if this will have an impact on Mint's Main Edition? I guess we will have to wait and see.

They should start working on productivity and graphic software, really I still don't see any real contribution other than trying to make it easy.

[exploder]

Canonical has it's goals and Mint has it's goals too. Nothing we can do about it, so why worry? The other Ubuntu variants are not showing any concern yet about upcoming changes, they could possibly be effected too. If changes became an issue at lease we have Debian based editions to fall back on. It's really hard to predict what Canonical will do or if they will even use what they have in mind for the desktop, it's anybody's guess right now.

[jungle_boy]

I agree with you, ark987

I think ubuntu is heading towards becoming a proprietary operating system, so all the other distros based on it will have to rethink its philosophy.

[Pjotr]

I think ubuntu is heading towards becoming a proprietary operating system

I can see no evidence or indication at all for that.... Not in the Snapper issue, nor elsewhere.

[xenopeek]

All the linked articles and posts raise more questions than they answer. Does snappy replace APT, can it be used side-by-side, or does it have some "alien" functionality for .deb packages? Or do a clean break and become incompatible with the tens of thousands of .deb packages out there not in the Ubuntu repositories.

That said, application isolation is the way forward (apparently). GNOME have been working on full application sandboxing, to restrict not only access to filesystem as snappy seems to do but also restrict system and devices access (security oriented). Wiki on the topic: https://wiki.gnome.org/Projects/SandboxedApps.

Right now I'm using firejail as a security sandbox, to achieve the same. Web browsers I run in firejail.

[jungle_boy]

I think ubuntu is heading towards becoming a proprietary operating system

I can see no evidence or indication at all for that.... Not in the Snapper issue, nor elsewhere.

This is my opinion.

[Reorx]

.deb packages have been working just fine for a long time... arguably, the .deb package is a de-facto standard. What is the advantage to use something else?.. something non-standard and ?proprietary?... well, Canonical can use it to control and/or extort dependent distros that use Ubu as a base... They can coerce dependent distros to use their software store or can charge (a nominal fee of course) dependent distros to use their repositories... It smells bad to me. If they are using the MS playbook, they won't turn any screws on the transition release (slated for 15.10) but probably the next LTS edition (16.04 - Xenophobic Xenops?)... I'll watch and see.

My prediction is that Mint will drop Ubu as a package base in favor of Debian before the end of support for the current Debian stable - Debian 8 Jessie (released yesterday). Jessie is a "LTS" edition with support for 5 years (until 2020)... LMDE2 Betsy uses Jessie as a code base...

I'll bet that Mint (main) will be using Debian stable as a code base by the time that Debian 9 Stretch is released as the next stable... 2 years?

(opinions expressed are mere speculation on my part - I have NO "inside" information)

[Condorman]

Completely agree. I reckon Mint will no doubt switch to the Debian base once they've figured out the best way to present it to users. Once they've got it close to how the Ubuntu-based edition works, we'll be good to go.

I read the thing about Ubuntu's plans for "snappy" packages, and to be honest my first thought was "well we've been here so many times". So many plans and promises and ideas, and not many often come to fruition. Granted we now have a nifty Ubuntu phone, which I like the look of, but we're still waiting on Mir and how the drivers will work. I do suspect that Ubuntu will become it's own contained OS outside of how we're used to Linux operating, but whether that will prove to be a success for them is hard to say. Without wanting to sound like a stick in the mud, I do feel the Mint approach is much better and more measured, and Debian is the way to go.

EDIT: I've actually never tried the Debian edition of Mint. Going to give it a go now.

[Reorx]

...I've actually never tried the Debian edition of Mint. Going to give it a go now.

I recently installed LMDE2C64 on an "experimental" (EFI) laptop... I like it a lot. It's clean and smooth and has the latest Minty bits... Works great out-of-the-box on my hardware (kind of a Mint "standard").

Significant differences I've noticed so far >
1) No PPAs
2) No "Device Driver" (driver manager) in System Settings.
3) The installer is different in several (likeable) ways...