Ummm Unstable much?

[datajunkie]

I have been a opensource linux developer since 1995. Before that I was a Unix administrator. I have ran everything from freebsd to haiku. I won't even get into the building of my own distros, all the distros I have used or all the ones I know intimately...

I would like to point out a few things before we start. It is nice that ubuntu is trying to covert the general non linux community away from windows in an attempt to repair our geek status (which has been a plague for several years now).

However doing things in the windows methodology is not acceptable. Linux is fine the way we have developed it and the standards that have been forged through time. Windows people should conform to us or stay on that mediocre OS.... This is our world. This is LINUX.... And windows copies our world all the damn time anyway... The Linux lab at M$ dissects all opensource projects and then publishes it within the M$ culture. One thing M$ is good for is ripping other software off...

I ran ubuntu before 11 (Oneric Ocelot) and switched to debian with the complete idiocy of Unity. I am not a Distro guy, I could care less about distros, but they provide a nice package set that is usually stable. This allows for opening up to tailoring your linux install to your needs... It is not a bad idea to rock a distro... Building from scratch is time consuming... SO with that in mind I switched to Mint in desperation hoping to maintain a connection to that amazing software fluidity.

Debian has lost its focus on updates and is WAY behind on updating official important packages. Ubuntu is a entirely new branch that doesn't know what it is and lost its gnu intention somewhere along the way. Ubuntu is basically attempting to copy mac AND windows and doing badly at both. But the monstrous mountain of software support is incredible... So mint seemed to be the answer. Even though I am not a noob in a linux sense...

Opps... Horrible choice << This is why::

A: Being a programmer and a game developer I have very particular needs for my linux system. It HAS to be stable and infinitely configurable... It has become even more necessary due to becoming involved with Unreal Engine 4 linux development. [seeing as how they went about that all wrong]

B: Knowing where everything is has to be clearly defined ie. OpenGl and a ton of other common libraries ←- Not in the path and your version of locate barely works...

C: update manager doesn't need to have new features LIKE WITH HOLDING PACKAGES OR BLOCKING PACKAGES!!!!!!! apt has worked perfectly for 15 years without that nonsense. All the grips were trivial nit picking.

D: DID I MENTION STABLE?????


So I have taken to doing everything with aptitude because your distro's version (which I can only assume is ubuntu's version) is worthless in every way. At first the update manager worked fine... At first everything worked fine. But I am a developer and I NEED dev packages which I attempted to install with synaptic... Not only did that take out all my nvida support, but it took out synaptic, Software Update, and your stupid software manager (that is totally Ubuntu's coddling solution to the convert)... Granted I stupidly tried to install gnome-shell and gnome 3 because they promised that this new build was stable... Shame on me! I should have known better having worked with gnome on various levels for years.

UPON trying to install some OpenGl extentions like xcursor I found that it took out all my multi monitor support... Somethings just disappear like they never existed.... So this has lead me to the conclusion that before I can continue my current project I am going to either have to swtich to Fedora which is going the wrong direction as well... Or I am going to have to attempt (with a small amount of any package support) Arch Linux.

On that I have been using linux so long that I am aware of what year it is. My years of building everything from source should be over. Dependency hell sucks as you all probably know...

So with this rant I have a solution to this unstable issue. Why don't you stop painting pretty packages compilation only and provide a Linux Mint Core ISO that is more like the old red hat. Where during the install choose what you want to install package by package?

We are not windows... We are not mac... We are GNU Linux...

[richyrich]

Troll Alert !

Mint 17 Xfce Edition - not one crash or hiccup, perfectly stable!

[datajunkie]

wow troll alter eh?


This pretty much itterates everything I said in a very fine simple way. The attitude....

Thank you for explaining the problem so very simply...

NOW TROLL:

If I was trolling I would not have wasted the 25 minutes I did making sure that I was clear on your double digit IQ.... <-- Real trolling

[Fred Barclay]

Perhaps you are mistaken about Mint?
Mint was designed to make computing easier on the average person, who, let's face it, are usually Windows converts (including me). It didn't even start out as a separate distro, but rather as a series of improvements Clem felt needed to be made. The "coddling" you speak of is part of the distro; designed for ease of use. If it doesn't fit your needs, then that's fine. Design a different distro, or customise Mint to your likings.
As far as configuration goes, I've never had trouble configuring anything except a different desktop. It's recommended for a reason that you stay with the desktop you downloaded. However, changing (say from MATE to Cinnamon) can be done. It's just a bit of work.
Other than that, cofiguration is a snap. Perhaps my needs are different than yours?

Stability. The reason the Update Manager witholds certain packages is for stability--which you say you want. If you are unhappy with the Update Manager, it's easy to change it to update all packages--I did, and never had a problem.
I'm uncertain as to exactly what you found unstable. Perhaps you could explain a bit more.

Granted, I don't know exactly what it is you need. But it sounds like Mint is not what you're looking for; as you say yourself.

Could you build this "bare-bone" Mint that you speak of? I think that it goes against the whole point of Mint--having everything the average user needs together in one piece--but the beauty of Linux, as you know, is your freedom with the software.

One last thought. Perhaps you would like LMDE more? With it being based upon Debian you could possibly tailor it more to your liking than the Ubuntu base of Mint allows. I love LMDE--its been my distro of choice for some time now due to speed and efficiency when compared to the main Mint. Can't wait for LMDE Betsy!

[vl1969]

let me point out to you sir, that you DID just waisted 25 min on a post that very much look and feel like trolling to many if not all people here.

and your comment on attitude is reflecting on you as much as on anyone else.
you want explanation on why your post have inspire some one to call you a troll?
it simple.

you claim to be an all mighty and knowledgeable open source/Linux developer with 20+ years of development etc.
you claim to have worked with many distros all this years.
yet you complain that some single distro and it's derivatives are badly suite YOUR needs, and advocating go back in time and stay there. if it's not says "TROLL" I do not know what is.

every time I see/hear an argument about Linux and Windows, I hear Linux is better because it offer choices and customization. it's open thus you can build your own distro and kernel to suit your need.
if you all that and more , why "b#$%tch" on this forum about things and not just go and build your own setup that fit your need.

I on the other hand can come here a "b#$%tch" about how even though Linux came a long way it is still not a 100% user friendly OS as much as Windows is.
and I can do this very well too, pointing out all the issues problems I came upon in the last year or so, as I was
building my own home file/virtualization server and switching my laptop, HTPC and main PC to Linux.
but I will not do that, as nobody pushed me to do that. I choose to move to Linux for my own reason and thus I do what I have to to make it work.

now even today there are plenty of distros that would be to your liking as they do what you seam to be looking for in a distro. they keep in the past, limiting the kernel and main setup to basics of 10 years ago.
keep the development to the barer minimum but keeping the core stable and light weight.
why go looking for something like red heat when you can use red heat?
use Slack, use Arch, use SUSE Server edition
they all will give you what you seam to ask for. why go to the distro that tries to appeal to general public and tries to
become a good viable competition to the mainstream commercial OS of the time (yes I am talking about Windows)
and thus adds lots of bells and whistles that aggravates you so much. you only need to deal with it when testing your apps/games , you can develop in peace in proper environment of your choice and just fire up a VM for testing now and then.

like you said, Attitude is everything.
and yours, I am sorry to say , stinks.



PS. it's interesting how the word "B#$ch" is replaced with "Princess" after posting

[Crewp]

I think some one with your background would do well with Gentoo, I agree with the last post, why even consider Mint? With your experience you should have known what you where walking into. And even funnier, to complain about it, makes me wonder about your level of expertise.

[vl1969]

Damn it, I forgot about Gentu

[Flemur]

richyrich: Mint 17 Xfce Edition - not one crash or hiccup, perfectly stable!

Here too. And I mess around with it so much that it should break, but never does (cuz I make backups...bwahahah!)

[Crewp]

Hey Flemur, I think I liked your other avatar better than this new one.

[MartyMint]

I have been a opensource linux developer since 1995. Before that I was a Unix administrator. I have ran everything from freebsd to haiku. I won't even get into the building of my own distros, all the distros I have used or all the ones I know intimately...

Sure.

[Reorx]

This is not the distro you're looking for... you can go about your business... move along... http://youtu.be/oPjL7p0wIpM

[fraxinus_63]

@ datajunkie - you have specific requirements and need infinite configurability. This isn't the right distro for you - try Gentoo, Slack or Arch.