Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

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peter_mike_warden

Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by peter_mike_warden »

Hi Guys,

there are people in the world who badmouth things just to make themselves look important without being in the position to improve anything.
I hope I'm not such a guy :lol:

I installed Linux Mint and like to tell my experiences and the reasons for it.

My computer is a Laptop, Asus A73T, 17" Display, AMD-A6 Quad Processor with 1.4 GHz, 8GB RAM, 2x 750GB HDD, WLAN with ADSL 2+.
I swapped my fast Hard disk against a slower one because it's quieter.
That was also a chance to install a Dual Boot System on an unformatted hard disk.

My installed Linux Mint 17 64bit is approx only 1/3 as fast as my Windows 7 .... :o

What else was my personel experience with Linux Mint 17?

A lot of light and a lot of shade ......

Downloading the ISO File.
Top.

Burning the Iso on CD with Windows 7.
Easy, with the standard Windows Explorer from Win7.

Booting from CD.
Still easy with Windows 7 but an absolute adventure with Windows 8.
The bloody Win 8 override the bios with a Windows boat loader and you have to update first the bios (and override the Win 8 boat loader again) before you can boot from CD/DVD.

Installing Linux Mint 17 from CD.
Normally easy.
But you have to do it once to understand that you can't do it so.
You have to find out the hard way (because nobody said this SO before) that you have to connect to the internet per network cable during the installation!!!
Otherwise the installation looks right, but only on the surface and WLan won't work afterwards.

Ok.
After you install Linux a 2nd time with a plugged in Network cable everything goes fine ..... when you have the knowledge HOW TO partition Linux.
The installations manager gives you only 3 chances to partition the full Disk OR only 1 chance to do it manually when you install a Dual Boot System.
First a long internet search told me WHAT I have to do manually and HOW I have to partition the disk for Dual Boot.
And afterwards still it was wrong (sizes) but Linux Mint 17 was working.
Better than nothing.

After the installation Linux Mint 17 AND Windows 7 were running perfectly as Dual Boot Systems on my computer.
I personally would rate Linux Mint 17 KDE approx between Win 98 and Windows XP from the graphics, handling and being user friendly.
And such things like installing software more on a level similar to Win 3.11 or less.

There are many small things far away from the professionalism of Microsoft Windows.

Sorry for such criticism.

Relatively easy things like installing a software or setting up an Icon on the desktop or the application launcher is really something that needs knowledge and research in the internet.
There is nothing you can do intuitively.
Instead you have many things that confuse you easily.

Example.
Installing Internet Browser.

I downloaded the browser of my choice from the webpage and got such a .tar.b2z. File.
You can unzip it and you get a folder.
In the folder is the working software.
You can start it, it'll run.
But now ....
.... where do I have to copy the folder to?
.... from where can I get an Icon?
.... how can I launch this Icon in the application launcher?

And I talk from Firefox 28 downloaded from a internet archive after Firefox 32 was out.

Small things, a joke in Windows because it happens from alone, hardly possible to do in Linux when you are a beginner.

Another example.

Copy and Paste Function doesn't work per Clipboard.
When you copy something in the text editor and close the editor before you paste the copied part somewhere else, the copied part is gone.
It's easy to loose things or to have too many windows open.
In windows if you copy something it remains in the Clipboard until you copy something else.
You have allways a clean desktop.

The autocorrect in the text editor.
You get shown the right word .... after you've written it right.
You DO NOT get shown the right spelling when you write something wrong.
Where is the sense in that?

Dolphin.
I search for File.
But (my) Dolphin searchs only on the top level, not in directorys or subdirectorys.
I can do that myself.
I don't need a File Manager for this.

And what software can I get?

At the moment I work in Windows with mp3 conversions, mp4 conversions, video conversions, torrent files, writing letters, using Internet, using Internet Video Telefonie.
Audacity, MKVmerge, Handbrake, uTorrent, OpenOffice, ICQ and others are software I use daily.

What's the situation in Linux Mint?

One example.

I use ICQ.
I wanted to install ICQ.
On the Webpage I got the info to install Adobe Air before I install ICQ.
But Adobe cancelled Adobe Air for Linux in 2012 because Linux is (following Adobe) a dead System with less than 0.5% on the Computer market.
And ICQ also stopped ICQ for Linux as a Beta Software in 2011.

What can I do with my ICQ Account?
I can install LICQ or use the installed KDM IM Messenger.
But only for Chats, not for Video Telefonie.

In my eyes, that all is not something that'll bring the big breakthrough for Linux.
Linux is still too much connected to users who have a large amount of background knowledge in installing and fixing things.
For "Joe Bloggs" there are still too many massive problems with simple, basic things.

I'll keep my Linux Mint 17 as 2nd System on my Dual Boot Laptop, but under such conditions only for long cold winter evenings, when I have nothing better to do.

I'd like to tell you from where I come to understand WHY I say what I say about Linux Mint 17.
There are differences betwen criticism and productive criticism.

I started my contact with computers as a computer technician in a time where you worked with 7MHz processor desktops, 20MB HDD in brick size and DOS.
DOS was standard and somehow a strange company in america tried to bring a extreme overpriced GUI on the market called MS-Windows.
It was a joke for everybody like me at this time because this crappy "Windows" was far far away from the quality of my Amiga OS or the expensive but simular Apple OS.
And a real computer user used DOS and not such a toy like Windows.
In the end Windows won because you couldn't play games on Windows and with that MS-Windows got the image of a "Professional" System.
All the others were "only" gaming computers, and who wanted something like that?
Today everybody ...... :?:

Afterwards with my job as computer technician I had to live with Windows.
But private I always had the newest versions of the different Linux on CD to always have a look what was going on.

You see, there is a little bit of basic knowledge from everything, but not enough to say I'm a specialist.

I was more or less a computer technician between the world of Geeks and Dummies and had to help to clean printers or to change passwords.
There were people who called technicians for 160 Bucks the hour to change a password on a PC.
No Joke.

But through that I dealt daily with "How to handle software when you are not a computer freak" people.

I still search a Alternative for Win XP to avoid something horribel like Win 8 or Win 9 or Firefox Australis Design or Tablets or Smartphones.
I still use a mobile only for phonecalls and a laptop for internet and have real friends in a real world and stay away from so called virtual (anti)social networks.
For me is eletronic still entertainment and not replacement for a empty life.

I'll stay with Linux Mint .... as a hobby :-D

Greetings

Peter Mike
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jimallyn
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by jimallyn »

peter_mike_warden wrote:Example.
Installing Internet Browser.

I downloaded the browser of my choice from the webpage and got such a .tar.b2z. File.
You can unzip it and you get a folder.
In the folder is the working software.
You can start it, it'll run.
But now ....
.... where do I have to copy the folder to?
.... from where can I get an Icon?
.... how can I launch this Icon in the application launcher?

And I talk from Firefox 28 downloaded from a internet archive after Firefox 32 was out.
You really should separate your problems into separate posts, as one could write a book regarding everything that you've posted. I will respond to just one of your problems, installing software. The easiest way to install software is to use either Software Manager or Synaptic, both of which should be available under Menu, Administration. You simply search for and select the software from the list of thousands of available programs, then click Apply. You're needlessly making thing hard by searching the web and downloading from God-only-knows-where.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
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jimallyn
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by jimallyn »

I use ICQ.
I wanted to install ICQ.
On the Webpage I got the info to install Adobe Air before I install ICQ.
Again, you shouldn't be wandering around the internet looking for stuff to install. Linux Mint comes with Pidgin installed, which does ICQ and many other messaging protocols.
At the moment I work in Windows with mp3 conversions, mp4 conversions, video conversions, torrent files, writing letters, using Internet, using Internet Video Telefonie.
Audacity, MKVmerge, Handbrake, uTorrent, OpenOffice, ICQ and others are software I use daily.

What's the situation in Linux Mint?
I would bet money that all or most of those are readily available in Software Manager or Synaptic, or are already installed. libav will convert just about any audio or video format available. Torrent files can be downloaded with Transmission, which you can find under Menu, Internet. You can write letters with LibreOffice, a full featured office suite like Microsoft Office, or with any one of probably a dozen text editors you can install with Software Manager or Synaptic. (LibreOffice is based on the same codebase as OpenOffice.) Audacity is available for install in Software Manager or Synaptic. Handbrake is also available in Software Manager or Synaptic.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
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jimallyn
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by jimallyn »

I see that you have installed Mint KDE, which is probably the MOST resource intensive version of Mint. Cinnamon will use less resources, Mate less than Cinnamon, and xfce still less than Mate. So if your computer is running slow, install one of the versions that uses less resources, and you can speed it up a bunch.
“If the government were coming for your TVs and cars, then you'd be upset. But, as it is, they're only coming for your sons.” - Daniel Berrigan
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by oldgranola »

More for the topic title than the particulars of the OP post above. I'm having a GREAT time now finally diving into Linux. I'm distro hopping a little (with a couple super time wasting self inflicted disasters and a change in my budget machine build) but am spending most of my time with LM17-cinimon. I can say there is some learning curve and frustration but not at all unsurmountable for a mostly windows experienced user. For me its been the paradigm shift thats the most difficult escpecially not having a windows Hardare manager. Understanding how to get a printer. scanner, other device to work has been difficult manly because I'm used to and reasonably good at the ms software manager and registry paradigm. Its tough to change this aproach in the mind. I just read a helpful comment that in windows you have to configure everything yourself but in Linux, a hardware problem is considered a "bug". As also noted above I found out that the best approach was to always first look inside the currently installed packages and available via the package managers and just give it a go. Plug it in. Look for 'how to' writups. Example, wherease win7 no longer supports my old cannoscan, for LM I found I could use the included "simple scan" or the Xsane plugin and I had my legacy device back again! For programs I am indeed finding most of what I need either in the distro package or easily via the software manager or the older synaptic package manager. I kind of like the later better. Cudos to the many teams who've designed this all.

For background, I was user of VMS-VAX (yes I'm very old), SunOS/Solaris, HPUX from an xterm or at the consol but never managed anything Unix/linux. I'm liking this a lot and want to learn more. Since the approach and architecture is different from windows I feel the need to sit down with a good book or ask about the best learning path in another thread.
comadore, pcDOS, hpux, solaris, vms-vax ....blah blah blah..
Yet I'm still a fn nooob
Jo4

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by Jo4 »

Hi,
I am searching for advice on where to start a learning process into the art of Linux, but noticed this posting.
Much of what has been said here, is where I also, as a Newbie have found myself.
I had to 'find a friend' to get me out of a mess trying to install Linux Mint from a magazine disc! I realize that a lot of assumptions have to be made to get any process under way, but wonder if there is any Grading system available to stop Newbies making dreadful mistakes? It would certainly help if we had better informed decisions making available.
My wife has a Windows XP for me to deal with, but I am not so sure of my ability to get it done, especially after doing my machine so badly. Not a good advert for developing such a great OS?
Cheers,
Jo
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Flemur
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by Flemur »

There are many small things far away from the professionalism of Microsoft Windows.

Fortunately.
Please edit your original post title to include [SOLVED] if/when it is solved!
Your data and OS are backed up....right?
DrHu

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by DrHu »

I hope so as well, but..

The item about installing Mint 17 and WiFi not being available and that you have to connect to the internet to complete the install ?, I guess there are multiple parts of a complete sentence there, it just got me confused
  • Install Mint 17 from the DVD/CD you have created from the Linuxmint download file/image
  • Fix any issues
    --wifi failing, usually a driver issue for some chip sets, eg. Broadcom/Atheros being some of the problematic ones..
  • Internet connection
    --to update the system
I usually use this method

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get update
sudo apt-get upgrade
--makes it easy for me to follow the process via the (spit-out messages/prompts provide by the installs..
Relatively easy things like installing a software or setting up an Icon on the desktop or the application launcher is really something that needs knowledge and research in the internet.
There is nothing you can do intuitively
I find that quite funny and rather sad, anyone who takes even a little time or who has ever installed any OS (windows/Apple or otherwise will have a good idea of what to do), and it won't be a problem
--I know, I know: if the internet doesn't work, the welcome screen doesn't help (that was a choice of Mint: Knoppix provided the data locally for their welcome screen (and for most users that is probably the better option
If you instead of a Linux OS, choose a MAC, would you need some or much more help to see how to intuitively use their desktop interface style
  • My guess, Absolutely!!!
And for the other poster (magazine disks CD/DVD)
--these aren't always the best method: may be not as up-to-date as the Linux distributor, or have some media issues or use their own menus for the install (adverts and so on..)
  • All these can cause more problems than they are worth..
--especially when a download is free (use a library or internet shop or free wifi connection to get the file (*.iso) or some CD/DVD services that provide fairly cheap delivery at a cost of about $4.00/for any Linux distribution.
http://www.osdisc.com/products/linux
--that's one example, as you can see they are previous versions; not the most current from the Linux distributor
Jo4

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by Jo4 »

Thank you for your responce, please do not forget, that you are Level 16, and I am -1.
Patience and time, learning by practise etc do seem the best bet, but help from guys like you is invaluable.
I still feel that everything can be done better (including Linux), but the whole ethos of Linux is my driving force.
Thanks to all that get to Level 16, and for giving a helping hand to the Newbies.

Jo
var
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by var »

1. First, don't go and download .tar.bz2 files for example. Whatever you need will be in the repo's so you can search the store and install, then bam it is automatically installed where everything needs to be.

For example .deb files, double click, install, done.
scryan

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by scryan »

God god that is an insanely long post just to say you don't like linux and don't know how to use it.

You realize that Internet during install is only recommended? I always skipped it because its faster to install and not download the language files I don't need anyways...
Neither of my computers get even wired Internet before I install drivers... Both worked out of the gate with full wifi support in linux, so that one goes both ways depending on hardware support on both sides.

KDE is one of the most complex desktops... Easily matches any modern windows on style if you style it nicely, but the fact that it gives you control over literally every aspect it can be hugely overwhelming. The folks over at KDE have realized this and brought in people to help it be kinder and more obvious to use... But that many options will always leave you tripping over things until you gain your footing.

I'm sorry the project people spent thousands of hours making your for free was not up to your standards. Better luck with windows.
mintybits

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by mintybits »

It is curious or perhaps telling that an OS that is so reliable and is free has such a tiny uptake among the general population.
We must be doing something wrong. :P
JusTertii

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by JusTertii »

mintybits wrote: It is curious or perhaps telling that an OS that is so reliable and is free has such a tiny uptake among the general population.
We must be doing something wrong. :P
I'd suggest it's because office, win software, and games are all unlikely to work properly without a lot of fiddling around
(things most people want at least one of).

Eg:
Libre/open/WPS-office -> good for free software, but nowhere near the standard of MS's offering.
Win software -> hit and miss, only then with wine.
Games -> where to begin? Anything requiring Direct X won't work :-(
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Fred Barclay
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by Fred Barclay »

mintybits wrote:It is curious or perhaps telling that an OS that is so reliable and is free has such a tiny uptake among the general population.
We must be doing something wrong. :P
My perspective on this is simple: most people have barely heard of Linux and/or consider it something that only "geeks" love--as was explained to me when I first heard of Linux from the principal of my school. Also, almost ever desktop or lappy you buy is preinstalled with Windows. People grew up with it and don't want to change.
Familiarity is key--just look at all the blokes within the Windows community who never swapped from Xp to 7 (even though they were similar IMHO) because they were familiar with Xp. Why do a complete flip and move over to Linux, when you will have to learn new ways of doing things and new terminology? Then the freedom of Linux puts many off. I was confused when I dived into Linux myself by all the different distros. I didn't realize that "Linux" is only a kernel--I thought it was a OS like Xp or Win8.1 (or DOS for the older and more experienced amoung us!) So when I would google "Linux" and strange words like Debian. Ubuntu, CentOS, or Fedora would pop up, it perplexed me.
Now within the Linux community, Mint is only behind Ubuntu as the most-used distro. So I don't think we're doing too badly. Do I think Mint (or linux as a whole) will ever "conquer the desktop" the way Microsoft has? No. But this is due to people's ingrained habbits more than any fault with Linux. At least I found Linux! I'm not going back!
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Shunjoss

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by Shunjoss »

Fred Barclay wrote:
mintybits wrote:It is curious or perhaps telling that an OS that is so reliable and is free has such a tiny uptake among the general population.
We must be doing something wrong. :P
I think first the "market share" of linux is underestimated, and people are somewhat forced to buy windows/apple os alongside with the pc.
And the mighty linux difficulty of installing linux.
And to be fair linux is better in stability, security, production and easier than Windows (by far).
And Windows is great for gaming, and the quality of software (and crapware). Example : MS office, game in general.
Why I said crapware ? Because it is a big interest for companies : e.g google chrome who try to install on your system in every single installation. Taking care of stealing your data.

In conclusion, windows is still way ahead because of enterprise who need special software to work with no comparison in linux (yet). Also the pre-installed windows helps a lot, with people's habits that pc comes with windows. And other who think that a pc is only MS word and internet browser.
But, there is lot of people interested in linux. I hope valve will do a great job with steamOS (based on debian), to get hardware/gaming/software enterprise interested in linux.

PS : do you really think that microsoft has windows server xD? I don't think they will allow it.
var
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by var »

Fred Barclay wrote:
mintybits wrote: Familiarity is key--just look at all the blokes within the Windows community who never swapped from Xp to 7 (even though they were similar IMHO) because they were familiar with Xp. Why do a complete flip and move over to Linux, when you will have to learn new ways of doing things and new terminology? Then the freedom of Linux puts many off. I was confused when I dived into Linux myself by all the different distros. I didn't realize that "Linux" is only a kernel--I thought it was a OS like Xp or Win8.1 (or DOS for the older and more experienced amoung us!) So when I would google "Linux" and strange words like Debian. Ubuntu, CentOS, or Fedora would pop up, it perplexed me.
I never had an issue when I first went to 'Linux'. Slowly these things came to me and it was really simple. People who say it's only for geeks really don't know what they are talking about. All this stuff about the installation being impossible or the GUI not being 'perfect'. I'm sure none of these people could even install Windows on a hard drive let alone a totally different OS.

I just installed the latest CentOS on my main machine (I demand stability and no less than 10 years of support) and it was easy, sure anaconda isn't the most intuitive but anyone with half a brain could get through it. There was also no 'captain obvious' moment like the Mint installation where it shows you VLC, LibreOffice etc even though they are visible on the LiveDVD ;)
killer de bug

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by killer de bug »

var wrote: People who say it's only for geeks really don't know what they are talking about. All this stuff about the installation being impossible or the GUI not being 'perfect'. I'm sure none of these people could even install Windows on a hard drive let alone a totally different OS.
Most of the people criticizing Linux have never used it or nether tried to install it :wink:
mintybits

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by mintybits »

@var Your quotation copying went awry. It wasn't me who wrote this: :wink:
Fred Barclay wrote:
Familiarity is key--just look at all the blokes within the Windows community who never swapped from Xp to 7 (even though they were similar IMHO) because they were familiar with Xp. Why do a complete flip and move over to Linux, when you will have to learn new ways of doing things and new terminology? Then the freedom of Linux puts many off. I was confused when I dived into Linux myself by all the different distros. I didn't realize that "Linux" is only a kernel--I thought it was a OS like Xp or Win8.1 (or DOS for the older and more experienced amoung us!) So when I would google "Linux" and strange words like Debian. Ubuntu, CentOS, or Fedora would pop up, it perplexed me.
var
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Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by var »

Arrgh! Sorry about that, one can master dpkg but nested quotes still confuse me :lol:
DeMus

Re: Beginner experiences with Linux :-)

Post by DeMus »

Dolphin.
I search for File.
But (my) Dolphin searchs only on the top level, not in directorys or subdirectorys.
I can do that myself.
I don't need a File Manager for this.
Not true. Dolphin looks in all (sub)directories below the one you started your search. If you want to look for something in your entire system then start the search in /. When the file exists in your system, Dolphin will find it.
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