Software installation is the one and only weakness of Linux

[Jonmo1]

but the difference is that, in Windows, it's ALREADY compiled and packaged.

By Who?

[scryan]

but the difference is that, in Windows, it's ALREADY compiled and packaged.

By Who?

Whomever wants to. For some cases, especially a lot of the open software that gets ported over, this may just be who ever is willing and knowledgeable... but most often its done by the developer/distributor of that code.

But linux has MUCH more options then Windows. In fact, your OS isn't just "linux", its a linux kernel (the part of the OS that does all the work behind the scenes) and a supporting set of tools (Notice sometimes you will see reference made to GNU/linux). These tools can be freely swapped around if you like something else more. For this reason and a few others source code is often distributed rather then binaries because it allows the program to be built SPECIFICALLY for a particular platform (you may have an x86 processor, but is it a 686, 386, ect?) and a different distribution. Yes, it seems harder, but if you know what your doing you end up with a program that can be run on a greater variety of systems that is more optimized for the environment in which it is being run.
Distributions such as Gentoo build all programs from source on your computer for this reason.
Again, growing pains... but its not done to piss you off or make it less usable. While it may not seem like it, it makes the system MORE usable.

[Kholargol]

but the difference is that, in Windows, it's ALREADY compiled and packaged.

By Who?

Have you already heard about a Windows user who need to compile an app that he got on the Internet ?

[Kholargol]

but the difference is that, in Windows, it's ALREADY compiled and packaged.

By Who?

Whomever wants to. For some cases, especially a lot of the open software that gets ported over, this may just be who ever is willing and knowledgeable... but most often its done by the developer/distributor of that code.

But linux has MUCH more options then Windows. In fact, your OS isn't just "linux", its a linux kernel (the part of the OS that does all the work behind the scenes) and a supporting set of tools (Notice sometimes you will see reference made to GNU/linux). These tools can be freely swapped around if you like something else more. For this reason and a few others source code is often distributed rather then binaries because it allows the program to be built SPECIFICALLY for a particular platform (you may have an x86 processor, but is it a 686, 386, ect?) and a different distribution. Yes, it seems harder, but if you know what your doing you end up with a program that can be run on a greater variety of systems that is more optimized for the environment in which it is being run.
Distributions such as Gentoo build all programs from source on your computer for this reason.
Again, growing pains... but its not done to piss you off or make it less usable. While it may not seem like it, it makes the system MORE usable.

Thank for this reasoned and accurate answer ! For me, it makes all the thing even more frustrating because - technically speaking - all the stuffs are done to make things optimized and stable. Except, that you need to be an experienced user. In a ideal World, anaybody should be able to download an app and automatically compile it for his system..

[Kholargol]

There are no real credentials (unless it is the Ubuntu Software Center). I guess the only real credential is to be a recognised maintainer of the package and ensure it is available in repositories to be downloaded.

As for the software compilation, that link is only very basic and will cause problems for beginners if they encounter another build system. My recommendations:

1. Download the package
2. Read the INSTALL, README files, if the documentation is high quality it will list the dependencies (if any) that the app requires before it will compile. Make sure all the dependencies are fulfilled before even doing ./configure. But if you are not sure, then ./configure will fail at some point and you will know which dependency it needs.
3. If it succeeds then do a make, test that it runs then a sudo make install (sometimes there is no install for the package).

Other systems are shell script based and cmake based. I would suggest doing some reading up on all these various build tools. You will need the knowledge

As for the PS3 Media Server, it is Java based. So read the read me file, then you need to open a terminal and sudo apt-get ..... the dependencies (but you really do not need ffmpeg so delete that from the items to get). After I did this, I simply executed the PMS.sh script (./PMS.sh) and it loaded up the application. For this package there is no compilation since it is java based and the shell script then executes the .jar file contained.

Hope it helped you out

Thanks. PS3 Media server was just an exemple, to show that, in real life, an install is not "add ppa/update ppa/install app and if id doesn't work it's because you're stupid" .

And for this app in particular, the tricky part, is not the installation believe me. The tricky part is to make it works:
- on Linux Mint 17
- able to read all the video formats
- and with subtitles working (embedded/external) !!

But it's an other topic..

[Jonmo1]

but the difference is that, in Windows, it's ALREADY compiled and packaged.

By Who?

The point I was trying to make here is:
At some point, that software was indeed 'compiled and packaged for Windows' by a person or group of persons.
It didn't happen magically.
Someone HAD to do that work.
Who do you think did it?
Microsoft (the makers of Windows) certainly didn't do it.
It was done by the company that made that software.
That company actually Paid someone to do it 'For You, the end user'

Software that is made 'for Linux' must also be compiled and packaged. Just like software made 'for Windows'
The difference is that nobody Pays a person or group of persons to do that work 'for LInux'.
And you expecting the Makers of Linux to do that work for you is unfair and unrealistic.

There are lots of people that do actually do the work for some programs (definately not all).
They don't do it because they're being Paid to do it.
They do it out of generosity because they enjoy it.
Then they say "Hey, here's a compiled version of program XYZ, you're welcome to use it if you like"
For Free.

And those are the programs that make it into the Repositories to be Brainlessly 'Point and Click Installed' from the Software Manager.

But not all programs have had people do the work 'for you' out of the goodness of their hearts.
There are of course alot of programs that don't get this work done 'for you'.
This is because of the 'lack of interest' those software companies have towards making their programs easily installable in Linux.

[Incentive I.C]

The point and click you are refering to is a binary. And the reason you don't have the latest version is becacuse it has not been demended stable enough/tested enough to be put in the repo. If you want everything as latest software as possible try an arch based distro. Don't be superised if something you like from windows in not on linux. Linux doesn't have close to the amout of software windows does and this has been explained many times.

Honestly do you want to have this problem fixed or are you just going to keep compaining? When the software doesn't install you will get something called an error code.(Or some kind of error) This will help pinpoint the problem. Post the error so somebody can help you. If the application is in the repo and its not installing for you maybe your source.list is messed up. Maybe there is someting wrong with APT?Nobody will ever know intill you post that code. "It just not installing" is too vague. Back to the vbox problem there are alot of things titled Virtualbox in the software manager maybe you installed a dependence instead of the program.

Read thishttp://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=83444

[MartyMint]

The difference is that nobody Pays a person or group of persons to do that work 'for LInux'.

Uhhh...not true.

The difference is that nobody Pays a person or group of persons to do that work 'for LInux'.

There are lots of people that do actually do the work for some programs (definately not all).
They don't do it because they're being Paid to do it.
They do it out of generosity because they enjoy it.
Then they say "Hey, here's a compiled version of program XYZ, you're welcome to use it if you like"
For Free.

Linux is not an ideological stance. It's a software kernel.

The "Stick It To The Man" posturing of Linux "enthusiasts" is frankly, embarrassing...

[Kholargol]

The point and click you are refering to is a binary. And the reason you don't have the latest version is becacuse it has not been demended stable enough/tested enough to be put in the repo. If you want everything as latest software as possible try an arch based distro. Don't be superised if something you like from windows in not on linux. Linux doesn't have close to the amout of software windows does and this has been explained many times.

Honestly do you want to have this problem fixed or are you just going to keep compaining? When the software doesn't install you will get something called an error code.(Or some kind of error) This will help pinpoint the problem. Post the error so somebody can help you. If the application is in the repo and its not installing for you maybe your source.list is messed up. Maybe there is someting wrong with APT?Nobody will ever know intill you post that code. "It just not installing" is too vague. Back to the vbox problem there are alot of things titled Virtualbox in the software manager maybe you installed a dependence instead of the program.

Read thishttp://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=83444

About PS3 Media server
I don't want the latest version, I want a working version, meaning I should be able to use my PS3 as a media center for kind of videos. I was able to do it on Windows easily (just by installing the software) and Linux Mint 16 too, with sweat and tears.

My 2 last problems on Mint 17 are to make the embedded subtitle working and to correct a horrible sound problem with some MKV videos. I'm sure I will make it works but it will take some time. And if I were looking for help specifically for PS3 media server I would have posted on PS3 media server Linux forum, not here because this thread is a chat about software installation on Linux !

I didn't change my mind about software installation in general because I'm pragmatic : Apps out of the store has always been more or less painful to install. My purpose is only this one : when I install an app on my Linux desktop computer at home, I feel like I'm installing a professional software on a server !

I didn't change my mind but I learned a lot of interesting things, thanks to you.

[xenopeek]

And with that I think all has been said on this. Experiences, viewpoints, and opinions differ, and we can't always get to common grounds and see things the same way. That's fine. We had a lively debate and I hope everybody picked up something from it

[eanfrid]

Slice of life:

My mother will be 75 on september. She uses LM13 Cinnamon since two years ago. She feels very comfortable and confident with it, so much that she does not hesitate to install or remove programs by herself.

She was previously using Windows XP then Windows 7. On Windows, she did not ever tried to install any software by herself because she found this operation to be over-complicated and she always feared to break something (ok as you know already, it is easy to break something under Windows but this is not the point ) ...

[scryan]

The point and click you are refering to is a binary. And the reason you don't have the latest version is becacuse it has not been demended stable enough/tested enough to be put in the repo. If you want everything as latest software as possible try an arch based distro. Don't be superised if something you like from windows in not on linux. Linux doesn't have close to the amout of software windows does and this has been explained many times.

Honestly do you want to have this problem fixed or are you just going to keep compaining? When the software doesn't install you will get something called an error code.(Or some kind of error) This will help pinpoint the problem. Post the error so somebody can help you. If the application is in the repo and its not installing for you maybe your source.list is messed up. Maybe there is someting wrong with APT?Nobody will ever know intill you post that code. "It just not installing" is too vague. Back to the vbox problem there are alot of things titled Virtualbox in the software manager maybe you installed a dependence instead of the program.

Read thishttp://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=83444

About PS3 Media server
I don't want the latest version, I want a working version, meaning I should be able to use my PS3 as a media center for kind of videos. I was able to do it on Windows easily (just by installing the software) and Linux Mint 16 too, with sweat and tears.

My 2 last problems on Mint 17 are to make the embedded subtitle working and to correct a horrible sound problem with some MKV videos. I'm sure I will make it works but it will take some time. And if I were looking for help specifically for PS3 media server I would have posted on PS3 media server Linux forum, not here because this thread is a chat about software installation on Linux !

I didn't change my mind about software installation in general because I'm pragmatic : Apps out of the store has always been more or less painful to install. My purpose is only this one : when I install an app on my Linux desktop computer at home, I feel like I'm installing a professional software on a server !

I didn't change my mind but I learned a lot of interesting things, thanks to you.

I am curious however...
We did three pages of this with out getting into it, because your choices are your choices...
But whats the deal with PS3 media server anyways? Why not use one of the many many media server options that you WOULDN'T have to compile from source?
Sometimes we need a particular program, and you have the right to be insistent about your choice (it is linux after all)... But man you would make it a lot easier on yourself to simply look for something else that does the same job and has been prepared for you.
Just as when using a mac instead of windows, or windows instead of mac... sometimes you may just have to use a different piece of software to get the same thing done.
If you WANT/NEED program X as you have seen you can probably force it... But if you just need to accomplish something (streaming media to PS3) you may ultimately find it MUCH easier if you give in and use one of the utilities officially supported by your distro/their repositories.

[Kholargol]

Why especially PS3 Media server ? Because I didn't find any valuable and fully working alternative !

By fully working, I mean an app which is able to stream all types of video formats, not half of them !

[Kholargol]

Slice of life:

My mother will be 75 on september. She uses LM13 Cinnamon since two years ago. She feels very comfortable and confident with it, so much that she does not hesitate to install or remove programs by herself.

She was previously using Windows XP then Windows 7. On Windows, she did not ever tried to install any software by herself because she found this operation to be over-complicated and she always feared to break something (ok as you know already, it is easy to break something under Windows by this is not the point ) ...

My granma passed away but if I should have to install a computer to an senior citizen, I would install Mint without any hesitation, Cinnamon or Mate edition. And I would tell him/her that the only way to install an app is to use the store..

I'm sure your grandma don't need to install the same apps than me. I guess she's not so nerdy as she still running on Mint 13 !!

[InkKnife]

This arguement is thin.
Trolls always go seek out some obscure, unpopular edge case application and use it to damn Linux all the while ignoring the pervasive way even reputable sites like download.com and cnet load up the wares they host with all manner of nagware, stealthware, spyware and other crap that is a daily plague in Windows.