Software installation is the one and only weakness of Linux

[var]

I also use only 64bit, never had a problem. When I used to run Slackware I also had no issues getting drivers etc. The same is true in Mint, what is the app you are trying to get Khargol? The mintInstall is easy and it's basically a window - office - app - install. I don't think it could get any easier...

If you don't tell us what you are trying to get and how you are doing it (not all PPA's are maintained) then we cannot help.

[Kholargol]

I got problem with almost every app/theme/driver I tried to install !

- ATI Drivers
- Universal Media Server
- Steam
- compiz
- Skype (got problem with audiopulse in KDE, not on Mint 7 cinnamon)

(Worked like a charm : xfburn, gparted taken from the store. This kind of installation could not get easier indeed.)


And other more but when I spent too much trying install an app, I simply gave up.
I gave an exemple of UMS in this thread but it has been moved here : http://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=172937
I just would like to know how to properly install this app. What I call "properly" is: the app is working, and available in the Mint Menu.

In a more general manner, I would like to know how to install apps which are not taken the store. Everybody says it's easy, it's your fault, blabla..

If it's so easy, please guys, tell me HOW to do !

[scryan]

Both steam and compiz are in the software center... I haven't tried any of the others, but those two I have installed... and for either one i clicked install? What happened when you did that?

[Kholargol]

It's nice to help me but I finally uninstalled steam. I was able to launch it by switching graphic driver but I got a new error meassage when I launch a game. I also uninstalled Universal Media Server too, too much problem with it.

An other recent example.
- This evening, I installed virtualbox from the store. But it was not available in the menu, so I was unable to launch it.
- I uninstalled/reinstalled it with Synaptic : same problem
- I launched it in command line and I've got a message error saying it was not installed. So, I installed with a command line
- Once installed in command line, I was able to launch virtualbox but got an error message, something like "kernel driver is not installed."

I guess some paquet are missing something like that but, once again, I was not able to install a app.

(moderators : it's only an example, don't need to move this in a new thread !)

Surely, I will find a solution but I'd rather spending my time for something else than check google, forums, etc in order to make a simple app working on my computer !

A dual boot Linux/Windows is perhaps a solution to my problem. Keep Linux for "simple" things like Internet browsing and multimedia and Windows for others apps. I really like Mint interface, its fastness, its simplicity to use and its low maintenance but really, I'm tired of all this error messages, scripts, tweaks, command lines and others each time I'm installing an app..

[eanfrid]

Okay. You made it clear at last. You do not actually ask for easy install. You are looking for brainless install, the only way Windows works. Sorry, but as easy and simple it can be, brainless administration is not part of the Linux paradigm.

[Incentive I.C]

It's nice to help me but I finally uninstalled steam. I was able to launch it by switching graphic driver but I got a new error meassage when I launch a game. I also uninstalled Universal Media Server too, too much problem with it.

An other recent example.
- This evening, I installed virtualbox from the store. But it was not available in the menu, so I was unable to launch it.
- I uninstalled/reinstalled it with Synaptic : same problem
- I launched it in command line and I've got a message error saying it was not installed. So, I installed with a command line
- Once installed in command line, I was able to launch virtualbox but got an error message, something like "kernel driver is not installed."

I guess some paquet are missing something like that but, once again, I was not able to install a app.

(moderators : it's only an example, don't need to move this in a new thread !)

Surely, I will find a solution but I'd rather spending my time for something else than check google, forums, etc in order to make a simple app working on my computer !

A dual boot Linux/Windows is perhaps a solution to my problem. Keep Linux for "simple" things like Internet browsing and multimedia and Windows for others apps. I really like Mint interface, its fastness, its simplicity to use and its low maintenance but really, I'm tired of all this error messages, scripts, tweaks, command lines and others each time I'm installing an app..

Like others have said you should really post these error messages so you can be assisted. I think i found a soution to your problem. I think it is just a dependence problem. install dkms. But this problem and soution is everwhere on google so if you have more questions look it up. I have found it best for Vbox to install the deb from the virtualbox website.

[scryan]

It's nice to help me but I finally uninstalled steam. I was able to launch it by switching graphic driver but I got a new error meassage when I launch a game. I also uninstalled Universal Media Server too, too much problem with it.

An other recent example.
- This evening, I installed virtualbox from the store. But it was not available in the menu, so I was unable to launch it.
- I uninstalled/reinstalled it with Synaptic : same problem
- I launched it in command line and I've got a message error saying it was not installed. So, I installed with a command line
- Once installed in command line, I was able to launch virtualbox but got an error message, something like "kernel driver is not installed."

I guess some paquet are missing something like that but, once again, I was not able to install a app.

(moderators : it's only an example, don't need to move this in a new thread !)

Surely, I will find a solution but I'd rather spending my time for something else than check google, forums, etc in order to make a simple app working on my computer !

A dual boot Linux/Windows is perhaps a solution to my problem. Keep Linux for "simple" things like Internet browsing and multimedia and Windows for others apps. I really like Mint interface, its fastness, its simplicity to use and its low maintenance but really, I'm tired of all this error messages, scripts, tweaks, command lines and others each time I'm installing an app..

to be fair my mom has been running windows since 3.1, and would have no chance setting up a virtual machine... No offense but perhaps work on learning the one system before trying to make it even more complex.

Steam gaming: yeah, especially if your on an older version of linux... i.e. 13 LTS you may not be able to run games that require newer graphics stuff. Was this with 17? I would think that would come with new enough stuff to run steam games.
I'll give it to you that linux is not idea for a gaming rig though. Gaming and Industry/professional software are not always well supported. I keep windows around for engineering software, and If I did more then light gaming I would be on windows for that too. There is some gaming you can do in linux now for sure, but IMO your swimming upstream and gaming is your focus it would just be easier to be on windows.

[Kholargol]

Okay. You made it clear at last. You do not actually ask for easy install. You are looking for brainless install, the only way Windows works. Sorry, but as easy and simple it can be, brainless administration is not part of the Linux paradigm.

Easy or brainless, call it like you want. I still think that - at the year 2014 - installing an application on a "Home Computer" should be a brainless/easy step, yes. Like on IOS, Android or Windows.

It shoud not be considered as an "Administration" act as you wrote. I'm not trying to install SAP ECC on a server, just some basic apps on my desktop computer !

[var]

For me it was brainless (well coming from Slackware it seems so). I installed apps last night without any problem and all worked including Steam, Skype some games, Geany, Cheese etc.. I don't know what you are doing but clicking a button to 'install' shouldn't be this difficult.

You still have not provided steps what you are doing or what hardware you have, it would be helpful to know exactly what system, graphics, cpu and what you are doing to go about installing programs. Did you do anything before trying to install or was it 'messed up' after installation?

And don't blame the system, because millions use Linux everyday without a problem.

[SMarais]

Like on windows or android or OSX or iOS or whatever you need to learn some basic things.
These days as Debian is the most popular based distro it's quite easy to find some .deb package you can easily install with gdebi.
On Debian, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and a lot of Debian based distro there are some few commands to know.
_first open a terminal
_sudo add-apt-repository ppa:some-name/here
_sudo apt-get update
_sudo apt-get install package-name
Is it really so complicated? It's not just a button of course but at least you see what is going on and if something goes wrong you know what went wrong.
I prefer that to any other way

[Kholargol]

"don't blame the system, because millions use Linux everyday without a problem."

.. And there are much more people which are using Windows. So does it means Windows is better ?

Seriously, guys, you are so eager to tell me I'm dumb that you don't even read what I wrote

I gave up as I'm not here to feed the haters. Thanks for thoses who really wanted to help.

[Kholargol]

Like on windows or android or OSX or iOS or whatever you need to learn some basic things.
These days as Debian is the most popular based distro it's quite easy to find some .deb package you can easily install with gdebi.
On Debian, Ubuntu, Linux Mint, and a lot of Debian based distro there are some few commands to know.
_first open a terminal
_sudo add-apt-repository ppa:some-name/here
_sudo apt-get update
_sudo apt-get install package-name
Is it really so complicated? It's not just a button of course but at least you see what is going on and if something goes wrong you know what went wrong.
I prefer that to any other way

YES it's complicated ! Because it never works like that .

Real Life exemple with PS3 media server :

_search the app on the store and do'nt find it
_open a terminal
_sudo add-apt-repository ppa:some-name/here
_sudo apt-get update doesn't work because you have to manually change the ppa from Trusty to Rargin
_sudo apt-get install package-name
_Congratulations, you've just installed version 1.81 as the last one is 1.90.1 !!
_ Download manually the 1.90.1 tar.gz and extract it other the 1.81 for a crappy install
_Now, you've installed the last version
- open google in your browser to make it works correctly


Same installation with Windwos :
- Download the executable and double-click on it

[xenopeek]

This has nothing to do with Linux. A one-click installer of PS3 media server can easily be made for Linux, but nobody -- including you -- cares enough about PS3 media server on Linux to actually do the work. In contrast, there are people that care enough about PS3 media server on Windows to do the work.

That's the entirety of the difference: there are some PS3 media server developers/users that use it on Windows, and thus care for installation to be easy. Nobody in the entire world cares for it the same way on Linux. Again, including you For all your comments here, you still haven't stepped up and made a difference.

In short:
- PS3 media server developers & users don't care about it working on Ubuntu;
- PS3 media server developers & users care about it working on Windows.

You're decidedly in the first group. Change your attitude and contribute to make PS3 media server as easy to install on Linux. It just needs somebody to compile & package it, exactly as somebody does for the Windows version. You've failed to see it but you can make a difference here -- nothing changes unless somebody decides to care just as much about PS3 media server on Linux as currently somebody is caring for it on Windows! Wake up

[Kholargol]

I understand your point of view but I'm not sharing it at all. This has EVERYTHING to do with Linux ! I showed you an exemple, not an exception. I always have to change ppa when I want to install a app for example.

I don't know if the devs don't care about their own app. In this case, why are they still developping it ?

Its a mess to install on Linux ONLY because Linux structure and I can't change that. A real change would be deeply structural like a real store (like Android one more time) or a standardiser installer..

But all of this is never-ending a conversation because you guys will continue to say that I must learn command lines, compile programs of other people etc, and I will continue to say that I'm a end user and I should not have to do that, even on a free/open OS.

You say that it just needs somebody to compile & package it, exactly as somebody does for the Windows version." but the difference is that, in Windows, it's ALREADY compiled and packaged.

[xenopeek]

Its a mess to install on Linux ONLY because Linux structure and I can't change that. A real change would be deeply structural like a real store (like Android one more time) or a standardiser installer..

You miss my point entirely. Even if there was a "real store" like you say, that wouldn't change anything for PS3 media server -- because there is nobody in the entire world that cares enough about PS3 media server to work on Linux. That's the only difference. Adding a "real store" wouldn't change anything for similar applications either, as there is nobody that cares about those applications working on Linux enough to roll up their sleeves and do the work...

Even if there was a "real store", somebody still has to do the work to compile the software and package it for the store. You want a one-button installer? You can. You want it installed from a "real store"? You can. That's all available on Linux right now. But nobody cares enough about your example and similar applications to do the work.

It's not a big surprise; Linux is often an afterthought. Just spent enough time on to get it to work, then abandoned as developers' priorities shift. Justifiable as there are less Linux desktop users than Windows desktop users.

[var]

As others have said you are blaming the community and Linux for something that is out of our control because basically the packages in the store are all the packages which people maintain, they compile them, test them, package them etc. It is not someone waving a magic wand and it appearing, it is people doing this in their free time to compile these..

If you really want the updated media server I can compile it and package it into a .deb file (basically the linux version of a .msi installer file) for you? Though it would be 64bit only, because I no longer live in the stone age of 32bit CPUs

[Kholargol]

You answered to the question I wanted to ask now ! What are the criterias for publishing an app in the store.


For the compilation, it's very nice to you but I'd rather learn it by myself as it's an operation I will have to do several time I think.

But you can help by give me a link to a trustable procedure for sure.

Is this one ok ?

http://www.wikihow.com/Compile-a-Program-in-Linux

[eanfrid]

If you want to help the community and not only make "something" for your own purpose, maybe you should start with reading the Ubuntu/Debian packaging guides. Here is a good starting point: http://packaging.ubuntu.com/html and https://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/packaging-tutorial/

[var]

You answered to the question I wanted to ask now ! What are the criterias for publishing an app in the store.


For the compilation, it's very nice to you but I'd rather learn it by myself as it's an operation I will have to do several time I think.

But you can help by give me a link to a trustable procedure for sure.

Is this one ok ?

http://www.wikihow.com/Compile-a-Program-in-Linux

There are no real credentials (unless it is the Ubuntu Software Center). I guess the only real credential is to be a recognised maintainer of the package and ensure it is available in repositories to be downloaded.

As for the software compilation, that link is only very basic and will cause problems for beginners if they encounter another build system. My recommendations:

1. Download the package
2. Read the INSTALL, README files, if the documentation is high quality it will list the dependencies (if any) that the app requires before it will compile. Make sure all the dependencies are fulfilled before even doing ./configure. But if you are not sure, then ./configure will fail at some point and you will know which dependency it needs.
3. If it succeeds then do a make, test that it runs then a sudo make install (sometimes there is no install for the package).

Other systems are shell script based and cmake based. I would suggest doing some reading up on all these various build tools. You will need the knowledge

As for the PS3 Media Server, it is Java based. So read the read me file, then you need to open a terminal and sudo apt-get ..... the dependencies (but you really do not need ffmpeg so delete that from the items to get). After I did this, I simply executed the PMS.sh script (./PMS.sh) and it loaded up the application. For this package there is no compilation since it is java based and the shell script then executes the .jar file contained.

pms_linux.png

Hope it helped you out

[scryan]

Its a mess to install on Linux ONLY because Linux structure and I can't change that. A real change would be deeply structural like a real store (like Android one more time) or a standardiser installer.

When you say make it more like the android store... what does that mean? Its a place you can go look at a list of programs to one click install. If you don't mess with repositories there isn't much difference.... I guess the difference here is that your going to say "Yeah, but to get my programs I HAVE to mess with repositories!". This misses the point that you GET to mess with repositories... That may be "harder" but that does not make it worse then the android store, just because it has advanced options to add further sources. Looking in the android store I can't find PS3 media server or compiz either... So the only way to get them on android would be to compile them for the device, create a self installing .apk package.... but then I couldn't add someone else work to the store so anyone who wanted to use it would have to get the file directly from me and run it manually. In linux at least if the program is not in the store you can find a link to someones server (repository) that will add it in there for you. That is a slightly more advance topic true... But at least with the linux method you have the option should you choose to learn.

But all of this is never-ending a conversation because you guys will continue to say that I must learn command lines, compile programs of other people etc, and I will continue to say that I'm a end user and I should not have to do that, even on a free/open OS.

Why would that necessarily be true? Do you understand the years and decades of free work that has been done to make linux an option for you? Really, you, the guy mooching free software is here to make demands about what you should and should not have to do? How about after someone writes you a few million lines for free, you show the appreciation of learning the 5 or 6 text commands they ask you to so you can use it?

Linux is a community project. Your peers made this for you, and have already dedicated SO much energy...Why should they have to do so much and you have to do so little? You don't have to meet them half way... Just show some appreciation and put some effort into learning how to do it before you tell everyone how wrong their system is. Its not wrong, its worked well for us. It DOES require a little technical knowledge...

But your more then welcome to take that refund and just go home. You have been offered linux. Trust me, it works... and pretty well for most stuff...You don't have to use it though.
We are here to help if you choose to continue with it... and I am sure many of us hope you do... But in the end linux is linux. There are reasons for most the stuff your complaining about, and good ones at that. Most who are comfortable with this system prefer it, its not that hard but I would be lying to ignore the learning curve (then again, its a computer... they are complex. I can't make anything work on a mac... coincidentally I have never bothered to learn how macs work). But if you don't like it, that is fine, you really don't have to like it, or even use it...

You answered to the question I wanted to ask now ! What are the criterias for publishing an app in the store.


For the compilation, it's very nice to you but I'd rather learn it by myself as it's an operation I will have to do several time I think.

But you can help by give me a link to a trustable procedure for sure.

Is this one ok ?

http://www.wikihow.com/Compile-a-Program-in-Linux

Compiling programs can definitely be confusing. I think unfortunately that will always be harder for the overwhelmed linux user... But its not that bad either, lol.
Usually one step goes through and sets up the compiler for your system (this is a step where you run a configure command), then the next step uses that info to actually compile, usually with some kind of "make" command" where the source code is actually turned into program.
The confusion is the exact procedure can vary a little, and the compiling can fail depending on how different your system is then the one it was made for and how good the programmer is at making things universal. Same is true on Windows BTW, just a more closed down environment means less options to mess up (or set exactly how you like)

The key is to look for instructions from the programmer in a readme file. Generic guides will show you the basic steps and probably work most the time... But there will basically always be a readme file written by the guy who made the program with exact instruction on how to get it to compile.