Automatic background updates anyone?

[dblueman]

When installing Linux Mint on friends/family computers, most of the feedback I get, is that the updates are a hassle.

What are people's opinion about having an option at install time to enable automatic background updates?

Since the repos are signed, I see no extra risk of this over the user being given the option, since they can't really audit the updates anyway.

Clearly, this would just need to create /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/50unattended-upgrades:
Unattended-Upgrade::Allowed-Origins {
"${distro_id}:${distro_codename}-security";
"${distro_id}:${distro_codename}-updates";
}
and /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/10periodic:
APT::Periodic::Update-Package-Lists "3";
APT::Periodic::Download-Upgradeable-Packages "1";
APT::Periodic::AutocleanInterval "0";
APT::Periodic::Unattended-Upgrade "1";

[Pjotr]

Bad idea.... Updates should always be done consciously, so that when something goes wrong, you know what caused it and you can act rightaway.

And another thing: you don't want to interrupt an invisible automatic update by shutting down the computer (which could happen easily).

I'd tell the people who think updating is a hassle, that that's the small price they pay for running a very reliable and very secure operating system.

By the way: I've found a way to make available updates more prominent, so that people won't simply overlook them:

For Cinnamon:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.8, right column)

For Mate:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.9, right column)

For Xfce:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.11, right column)

[xenopeek]

On a Debian Jessie install I did recently I did set up unattended-upgrades. That was on a computer without need for proprietary drivers. I'm not sure I would have done the same with an Ubuntu based install on a computer needing proprietary drivers; I might have just enabled security upgrades. But as I assume they will call you for support anyway, it's up to you

As this question does come up from time to time, I've written a new tutorial for it: Setting up automatic upgrades with unattended-upgrades

[Justinian]

What are people's opinion about having an option at install time to enable automatic background updates?

Pjotr has already pointed out severe problems that would result from running updates in the background.

Another problem is that certain packages should not be updated while they are in use. Imagine if Mozilla Firefox is updated while you are browsing the web, or if your NVIDIA graphics driver is updated while you are playing The Witcher 3; the result would be chaotic.

Of course, the Update Manager could implement a system in which it defers updates for packages that are currently in use. However, I am sure there are plenty of users who keep a particular application (e.g. Mozilla Firefox, Mozilla Thunderbird, etc.) open at all times. If these users rely on automatic updates, and never/rarely perform a manual update, then they could be left using an outdated package for a long period of time. This would pose a significant security risk to the user. And why would the average user ever perform a manual update, if they believe that "the Update Manager updates everything automatically"?

A viable alternative (which former Windows users would probably appreciate) would be to download updates in the background, but only apply them upon request by the user. An additional shutdown option called "Install Updates and Shutdown" could be introduced, allowing for the updates to be applied without supervision by the user. For the sake of users with metered internet connections, a setting should be available that enables/disables the automatic downloading of updates.

[dblueman]

Clearly we have two kinds of approach, so having the choice at install-time (but off by default) would improve the usability of Linux Mint, no doubt.

To address the concerns on libraries being updated while applications are using then, during update, the existing library is unlinked and a new one created with the same filename; applications which map the old library hold a reference count to the old inode, so nothing changes from their point of view. Only new mappings get the new library.

[Habitual]

Like a hamster on a wheel.
Do what you like to your LinuxMint.
I like mine just the way it is.

and

would improve the usability of Linux Mint, no doubt.

There is doubt. LM is 'usable' by hundred of thousands of users as is.
That is your opinion. I happen to disagree with it.

[DeMus]

I tried to find out what is the hassle of doing updates. I can't find it. It has been made so simple:

1) You see an icon on your taskbar changing color
2) You click it to open the updater
3) If you like you can have a look at what will be updated
4) You click the Install updates button in the toolbar of the updater
5) A new window appears in which you type your password (invisible for others) and that is it. Let the program do its stuff.
When it's all done the updater disappears automatically and your system is up to date.

[dblueman]

The issue is, most non-technical people just want to use the computer and have the OS step out of the way, so please see the it from another point of view.

Windows has the option for background automatic updates, so why should Linux Mint not give the user choice?

This discussion isn't about automatic vs manual updating, but it's about giving the user the choice. If I'm not mistaken, there is nothing lost in giving the user this choice, no?

[Pjotr]

The issue is, most non-technical people just want to use the computer and have the OS step out of the way, so please see the it from another point of view.

Windows has the option for background automatic updates, so why should Linux Mint not give the user choice?

This discussion isn't about automatic vs manual updating, but it's about giving the user the choice. If I'm not mistaken, there is nothing lost in giving the user this choice, no?

The user *already* has that choice. That's not the point. It's Linux: you can make it do everything that you want.

It's just that this is a bad and unwise thing. For the reasons already explained to you. But hey, it's your system, so do as you please....

[Cosmo.]

Besides the fact, that in Windows you only get the choice for automatic updates for Microsoft software - so your statement is not quite true - in IT there is always the situation, that comfort and security are 2 competing aspects. From the point of comfort the best Windows was the 9x series (no rights distinction at all), but nowadays nobody seriously would say, that it is a way to go back.

In Linux it is always root, who makes system changes (updates inclusive) and in Linux root always confirms via password query, that the user is privileged to order this. With fully automatic updates you obviously have to set this query aside. Comfort versus security.

If the user uses the computer, as you said, how much effort is it, to click the tray icon, if it shows the blue icon? If a single click is to much demand, how is the user supposed to create e.g. a calculation sheet?

And one point more, where your comparison with Windows does not match: As you most likely know, nearly every Windows update demands rebooting the system, that means, that the user has to save his work and after rebooting to reopen the applications, open the documents he was working with, probably scroll to the right position, has nearly always lost the history for undo / redo. That is really uncomfortable - to say it mildly. In Linux the user applies the updates and can continue to work during the update and after the update. One could judge, that the automatic updates are a kind of workaround against the consequences of updating Windows.

Taken the point, that in Windows updates for (non-MS) programs have to be done separately the comfort of updating is in Windows weaker that in Linux. You see, that seeing the whole there comes a different result.

If there would be a way to combine comfort and security, there would be no word against it. I believe, that this will be possible at some day in the future. We have a standing word here: Impossibilities will be done at once but wonders take a little longer.

[sevenskull]

I agree that should be an OPTION for automatic, yeah i know the risks, it is not for me anyway, but for people that are used to Windows, Android and whatever.
The thing is, there are a lot of them which doesn't update the system, doesn't care for that, and they are using outdated software, browser, flash, java, etc. and that could be even more dangerous than automatic update.
Maybe also an OPTION to show a popup on startup when there is an update, not only the icon.
Everything i say, is as an OPTION, a lot need it, and a lot doesn't need and don't want it.
Anyway i don't know where to put this as an enhancement to mint (ubuntu update already have it), but there is this github:
https://github.com/linuxmint/mintupdate/issues/113

[Habitual]

Isn't this what the package 'unattended-upgrades' is for?

[Crewp]

Just because it is an option in the windows world, doesn't mean it is here. I am always amused at the statement , ( well windows has it ) This is Linux, and things are different here. As stated you can make your system do what you want, but as is the case in OS's Windows has it's way, Mac has there's, Linux has there's. I find the update system of Linux far superior, IMO

[killer de bug]

I find the update system of Linux far superior, IMO

I agree. I fully agree!

[wps]

I have been using Mint for a week now. After having some issues with my internet connection, somebody told me to update my system.
It was then I started to look for it as I never noticed there were even updates.

I can see and understand the points against auto updating, and indeed it seems like a bad idea.
However, perhaps a clearer message could be given that there are updates waiting?
(unless ofcourse that already is an option that can be turned on?)

[Pjotr]

I have been using Mint for a week now. After having some issues with my internet connection, somebody told me to update my system.
It was then I started to look for it as I never noticed there were even updates.

I can see and understand the points against auto updating, and indeed it seems like a bad idea.
However, perhaps a clearer message could be given that there are updates waiting?
(unless ofcourse that already is an option that can be turned on?)

This might help:
https://sites.google.com/site/easylinux ... -prominent
(item 3.8, right column)

[wps]

Thanks Pjotr!

[killer de bug]

However, perhaps a clearer message could be given that there are updates waiting?

The small shield in the clock area is enough I think. I see no need for spaming, especially I see no reasons to force the start of the Update Manager and then to have to close it manually. You will not die and your system will not fall in pieces if you don't immediately apply an update. Worst case, just manually check for update once a week or so...

But of course, it's your system so I respect your decisions